Alamo American Iron Car

[Mach1]

Whats the deal with the Black Alamo Z28 Camaro whooping everyones ass in American Iron, anyone know the setup?

[Snatch Napkin]

I found the driver to be Mike Patterson. There is a youtube vid of the car, but that's the best I can find.

[MattB]

He's been racing a long time. That was one of the first AI/CMC cars I saw 8-9 years ago when NASA first came to Texas/MSR Cresson. He used to drive it on the street with a big splitter and whatnot. I'd assume aggie97 might know what's up with the car. It's probably more driver than anything, like most people in AI/CMC.

[Mach1]

He's been racing a long time. That was one of the first AI/CMC cars I saw 8-9 years ago when NASA first came to Texas/MSR Cresson. He used to drive it on the street with a big splitter and whatnot. I'd assume aggie97 might know what's up with the car. It's probably more driver than anything, like most people in AI/CMC.

yeah, i couldn't believe how he was tearing everyones ass up, AIX cars too, at the MRS-C NASA event

That car has me thinking about building a camaro for AI instead of a mustang, I wonder what kind of suspension work that car has.

[aggie97]

Mike is a great guy and a great driver. He has been beating on that car in different race classes since 1999 and is a good wheel man. He can drive it sideways better than a sprint car driver. He has been a top level driver nationally for many years.

The AI fields have been pretty thin and most of the "heavy hitters" have either moved on to more important things in life or are boycotting. I counted something like 24 true AI cars that have competed in TX since 2005 and only 3 or 4 are active at all any more. The arms race to run up front got rediculously expensive and the Director of that class wanted YMCA style racing and rules enforcement. It's ok cause we're ok don't cut it. The guys who were serious and spending 10's of thousands a year to run got run off while others were allowed to show up with illegal cars and got to run. Was a double standards deal that pissed off a bunch of people. The last 2 or 3 years only had 2 to 4 car fields that weren't much faster than the CMC field and with folks not showing up, why burn $1200 a weekend to run alone.

Personally, if you want to go racing with large enough classes, CMC is the place to go and hone your skills against some of the best in the country. if you want to tinker a LOT, and get outspent while running mid to back of pack, then AI MIGHT be for you, but you won't get the close door to door racing you will in CMC. I will not lie, AI will eat all your time looking to catch up and empty your child's college fund. The difference between CMC and AI rules is CMC is $20k for a competitive car. AI is north of $80k....$50k if you are resourceful and can drive. Some spend north of $100k...ask me how I know. Yearly operating costs are FAR higher as well as the average AI motor lasts maybe a year....CMC motors can go years. Brake pads are more expensive, and consumables are more expensive as well. CMC is just a great budget class but costs can get out of hand there too.

I'd also stay away from camaros in AI. There is no ABS system that can be put on a Camaro that can come close to comparing to the stuff we ford guys can "bolt on" up to and including the race abs on the new 2012 Boss 302S. I put it in my car this past weekend and WOW! the aftermarket for camaros is pretty scarce as well. Having one of each, a 99SS and my 2000GT, I can tell you without a doubt, the mustang is the way to go for sure.

If any of you guys are serious about AI or CMC, send me a PM and I will give you real answers about both classes. I've built cars for both classes that have run at the top of the field. I don't benefit from additional car counts and will not bullshit you into something you might not like. I wish I had someone that gave me real answers about AI before I started modding my car and spent a rediculous amount of money when I should have stayed in CMC and had a much better experience over the years.

Oh, and the reason Mike was asleep at the wheel at Cresson was because I wasn't there for him to chase!

[Mach1]

Damn, I had no idea it was that expensive, sure doesn't look that expensive. Maybe I should just build a spec miata :-D

Can you give me a very brief summary of the rules for CMC?

[aggie97]

Damn, I had no idea it was that expensive, sure doesn't look that expensive. Maybe I should just build a spec miata :-D

Can you give me a very brief summary of the rules for CMC?

you could build a stock 99 SS camaro with a 2500-3000 dollar cage, put race pads on it and go run AI...but you are going to get passed by well prepared CMC cars. hell, you can't touch an 05+ mustang for less than $18,000 that you would want to use as a race car without putting more money into the motor......brakes all around will run you $3000 or more. Pads are $300 a set for the fronts and last 4 weekends. Rotor rings for 2pc rotors start at 250 ea and can last a season.... The individual items don't seem like a lot...but they add up to a TON. hell, the 4 front wheels I just bought cost nearly $3k. good shocks will run 3500 to 4500. Aero is going to run you between $2500 and $10000 depending on how far you take it. AI is not for everyone. I'm not bragging here, but to run at the front of the AI field regionally and nationally, I spent in excess of $140k between 2006 and 2009....and I did ALL of the wrenching outside of building the shortblock. It's STUPID...but fun!


CMC basics are more along the lines of a stock pony car. basics are going to be 260 rwhp/310 rwtq and about 3100lbs depending on chassis. All suspension pieces and motor parts must be factory with VERY few exceptions, mostly regarding exhaust. No ABS allowed. Backdating of some engine parts is allowed in some instances. Brakes are restricted to keep costs down but you can still spend $2000 for front brakes. shocks are restricted to $600 per corner IIRC but no reservoir setups. Tires are spec toyo RA1's and go for about 240 each and last 2 or 3 events. smart to have 6 dry tires and 4 rains. No lexan, no cutting on the body, only what can be unbolted and even then, some things MUST stay on the car. Cage can only be tied in at the floors, and cannot be tied in at the roofline. The rules are VERY restrictive to prevent competitive advantages and to keep costs low both to build and to keep running. Weekends are still going to cost you $1000 with entry fees, fuel, tires and brakes.

Mike's car looks relatively stock...but I can assure you he has 100's of hours of time chasing spring rates and suspension parts on his camaro. He's also replaced his share of stock LS1 engines over the years. I also looked at the lap times and they were much slower than some of us have run in the past. some of that may be the track conditions or the fact he didn't need to push that hard, but the story is the "new" toyos are stickier than the ones we ran a few years ago so that gap may be even bigger. Light cars with Aero usually do well at Cresson since it's tight. slippery cars do well at TWS.

The rules in AI are so open it's scary...but not totally obvious to the new guy getting into the game. From a distance, an AI car looks like a mustang with a ricer wing on it...until you crawl under it and see the 1000's of hours of work put into a front running car. An AI car is a continuous development project. It's not a bang for the buck class for sure. CMC is much more attainable to the common racer and to be honest, has the best racing in this region. I'm sort of glad I run in a different group now so I can hop up on the wall and watch the CMC race! Those guys put on a hell of a show.

[MattB]

Maybe I should dust-off my CMC project I threw-in the towel on in ~2005. Costs got out of control for me then with all of the safety equipment(understandable!), brakes, wheels, tires, fuel cell, drivers gear, Hans device, etc. Ive been thinking about just doing a chumpcar, but even then, the costs for a competitive car aren't much cheaper!

[Mach1]

What is the most competitive CMC chassis? S197?
What is the diff between CMC and CMC2?

[aggie97]

What is the most competitive CMC chassis? S197?
What is the diff between CMC and CMC2?

There is no cmc and cmc2....they were merged into a single CMC class. The s197 is good, but now runs on a 235 tire instead of a 275 because it is so much better on track. They are now really limited by that little tire.

the hot combo is the 99-2004 with an aluminum shortblock and 2V heads, ast shocks, stoptech brakes.


there are also existing cars for sale for good prices but you usually end up with someone's used up race car that needs a lot of work.

[aggie97]

Maybe I should dust-off my CMC project I threw-in the towel on in ~2005. Costs got out of control for me then with all of the safety equipment(understandable!), brakes, wheels, tires, fuel cell, drivers gear, Hans device, etc. Ive been thinking about just doing a chumpcar, but even then, the costs for a competitive car aren't much cheaper!

I got a 97 Dodge Neon that is very well prepared and has a 22 gallon FIA cell in it. Great for lemons, cell is too big for chump. runs 2:11's at TWS on street tires and cut springs w/ stock shocks. CMC runs 1:58's to 2:02's for reference! It will have a freshened motor and blueberry gas in the tank! Painted like a blue testicle. I need shop space. $3500 without seat and harness. Bill of sale will be for $425 with add on's of 3075 for Greg Lucas built cage and safety equipment so you are all legal with lemons BS tech.

[racrguy]

Sheesh, and I thought running my sprint car was kinda pricey.

[TRAXX]

Painted like a blue testicle.

Sold!

[aggie97]

Sold!

With 7 coats of shitty paint it has a unique texture too!