Proving Jesus existed without the bible...

[Chuck_Finley]

Your first link refers to the same book your second link does, in regards to Pilate. That being said, the book being referenced ("Letters of Pontius Pilate: Written During His Governorship of Judea to His Friend Seneca in Rome") is, and was always intended to be, a work of fiction. Here's an original review of the book.

The book cites Crozier as the editor as if he represented a scholar who edited Pilate’s letters. Well, from the title, it certainly seems to indicate that Pilate wrote some letters doesn’t it? However, unbeknownst or ignored by the uncritical faithful, this book represents Crozier’s first novel, a fictionalized account of what he thought Pilate would have written.

During the first publication, no one believed this novel represented fact and reviews of the day reveal it as a work of fiction.

Crozier, a newspaper editor, went to Oxford University and retained an interest in Latin, Greek and the Bible. He wrote this novel as if it represented the actual letters of Pilate. Of course no scholar would cite this as evidence because no letters exist of Pilate to Seneca, and Seneca never mentions Jesus in any of his writings.

The belief in Pilate’s letters represents one of the more amusing fad beliefs in evidential Jesus, however, it also reveals just how myths, fakes, and fictions can leak into religious thought. Hundreds of years from now, Crozier’s fictionalized account may very well end up just as ‘reliable’ as the gospels.

Awesome, thanks for finding that. I never based any of my beliefs on these letters, but I'm glad to find out this was fictionalized. Glad to have that cleared up.

[YALE]

Awesome, thanks for finding that. I never based any of my beliefs on these letters, but I'm glad to find out this was fictionalized. Glad to have that cleared up.

I don't think you deserve a Sam Axe alias, dude.

[racrguy]

I don't think you deserve a Sam Axe alias, dude.

[Maddhattter]

Awesome, thanks for finding that. I never based any of my beliefs on these letters, but I'm glad to find out this was fictionalized. Glad to have that cleared up.

If I implied that you based your faith on the above links, I apologize. I never intended to.

[Chuck_Finley]

If I implied that you based your faith on the above links, I apologize. I never intended to.

No, I would rather know that those 'journals' were fiction than go around repeating it as if truth the rest of my life. The fact that I referenced one web site that does appear to be passing it off as truth sort of demonstrates that.

[YALE]

BTW: if you are actually Chuck Finley, you need to make with the Tawny Kitaen newdz.

[jdgregory84]

As I'm literally watching "The Last Crusade" religion is bullshit. I don't care what cloud you try to hide behind to justify it. It's a figment of your imagination/hope. That's all there is to it. Why should I live? To serve Jesus Christ, yet the people that say that throw those morals out the dor. It's so fucking stupid. I wish this forum didn't exist solely because nothing will ever be settled. It's always gonna be the same shit over and over again.

There is no God, and if there is, figure God out for me. Good luck.

[ceyko]

There is no God, and if there is, figure God out for me. Good luck.

Next up, are we in the Matrix or not?

[YALE]

Next up, are we in the Matrix or not?

Ah, verifiability! Now that's a fun wager!

[jdgregory84]

Next up, are we in the Matrix or not?

There's a movie called The 13th floor that suggests the whole "is the universe a simulation" theory. While I can't buy into it yet, it's a pretty decent flick that was on netflix....not sure if it still is.

[Maddhattter]

Next up, are we in the Matrix or not?

There is no way to come to a definitive answer to the question of solipsism. However, until there is a reason to believe that it is true, I won't.

Same thing with any religion. That's my entire reason for participating in these threads. If someone can actually demonstrate their position is accurate, I'll gladly sign up and, likely, be one of their most evangelical supporters.

[The King]

The only position that is accurate is that of God. Religion simply provides one means of learning His position.

[Craizie]

The only position that is accurate is that of God. Religion simply provides one means of learning His position.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[jdgregory84]

The only position that is accurate is that of God. Religion simply provides one means of learning His position.

While powerful, I've never seen such an empty statement.

[The King]

For examples of statements that actually are empty, look at the statements made by our POTUS regarding his beloved ACA.