AR15 Pistol/SBR, Silincer, Form 1, and reloading questions

[Jose]

So after this last range visit, I'm really thinking about picking up an AR pistol to SBR it and do the paperwork. Any suggestions on an AR pistol and what to look for? Is there a AR pistol out there that doesn't require a buffer tube sticking out the back? Quick Google search says Rock River makes one and I know Keltech does as well but thought I'd ask anyway.

Is the paperwork easy enough to do without needing a lawyer? Any links to info that walk you through the steps? Form 1 is what I'm needing to do right? What's a Form 4? That came up in a search I did here but I wasn't clear on what it was.

I had a fun time at this last range GTG and I think I want to be able to shoot more often. Is it worth it reloading your own ammo when comparing buying ammo in bulk for .223, 9mm, and .45 ACP? What would it cost for a setup to get started that I can be upgraded in the future (I wouldn't even know what could be upgraded if possible so fill me in).

TIA.

[David]

You file a form 1 of you're intending on making the NFA item yourself. If you're going the trust route I would suggest getting one done by a lawyer (simply because they will be the ones you call if something comes up). You won't need a lawyer to fill out and file the actual forms. However, your trust will require finger prints and photos for all reasonable persons a part of it.

Form 4s are for transferring already registered NFA items.

[S_K]

I don't think you can cost justify hand-loading vs bulk ammo with today's prices. Especially in popular calibers like .223 and 9 mm. I reload because I can make wildcat and hard to find ammo with out paying stupid prices. Also I can make quality ammo for the price of range ammo. Even with all that, I still buy bulk for plinking.

[bird_dog0347]

As already stated on the form 1 (to make SBR, 4 is for suppressor) and as far as reloading it's expensive to setup ($1k +) but gives you tons of options on your loads and the cost per round for me is roughly half off not including the equipment if you pick up your brass.

I started loading .223 because I already had all the gear to load .40 which I use for USPSA/IDPA and at that point I just needed to buy the stuff to convert over to .223 which was a few hundred extra dollars. If you shoot less than 2-3k rounds per year I'd say buy bulk unless you're in your 20's and plan to shoot 2-3k rounds per year for the next 20 years.

I'm at $0.16/round using pick up brass for projectiles, primers, and powder. A quick search showed me that bulk BRASS ammo is around $0.325/round for a different of $0.165/round (half price) if you pick up brass. So let's say it's gonna cost you anywhere from $700-$2600 depending on how nuts you want to go. Me personally, I'd say buy once and cry once and keep it forever if you decide to load your own. Get a Dillon 650 with the goodies and you're gonna be around $1300 for .223 to start then another $2-300 per caliber you'd like to add if you want to make it easy to switch ($50-100 to be difficult to switch).

So... if it costs you $1300 to get the press and stuff to load .223 and you're saving $0.165/round you'd have to load about 7900 rounds to break even. Which over the long term is easy considering the cost will likley only go up! You can further reduce the cost of other calibers if you're shooting multiple calibers.

It's also handy if you're shooting competitively but if you only go to the range a few times a year then it's best to buy in bulk and 9mm ammo is available from Stand One Armory!

[David]

Actually you can form 1 anything (machine has to be a DEWAT on a form 5).

[black2002ls]

I need to refresh myself on the changes and decide if a trust is the best way to go. I need to SBR my pistol

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[aggie97]

I need to SBR my pistol

Why is that so important?

[black2002ls]

Why is that so important?

Ease of operation mainly. I don't have any trouble using the buffer tube as a cheek weld, it is larger diameter than most, though a stock would be so much better

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[David]

AR pistols are just dumb.

[black2002ls]

AR pistols are just dumb.

I built it for fun, with the intent yo eventually SBR. It is by far, my favorite gun to shoot, though my list of choices is small.

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[svauto-erotic855]

AR pistols are just dumb.

X2

[bybotie]

So after this last range visit, I'm really thinking about picking up an AR pistol to SBR it and do the paperwork. Any suggestions on an AR pistol and what to look for? Is there a AR pistol out there that doesn't require a buffer tube sticking out the back? Quick Google search says Rock River makes one and I know Keltech does as well but thought I'd ask anyway.

Is the paperwork easy enough to do without needing a lawyer? Any links to info that walk you through the steps? Form 1 is what I'm needing to do right? What's a Form 4? That came up in a search I did here but I wasn't clear on what it was.

I had a fun time at this last range GTG and I think I want to be able to shoot more often. Is it worth it reloading your own ammo when comparing buying ammo in bulk for .223, 9mm, and .45 ACP? What would it cost for a setup to get started that I can be upgraded in the future (I wouldn't even know what could be upgraded if possible so fill me in).

TIA.

Big Matt just did this, get at him.

[CJ]

Buy a used single stage and a set of dies for $100 and a few other things and get busy. No need to buy a 1k+ press.

[Jose]

Thanks everybody for the info!

What's the difference between doing a trust and not? Is it basically to have multiple people on it? Also do you have to pay per item i.e. pay for the paperwork for an SBR rifle and pay again for a suppressor?

What's a good (cheap and easy) reloading set to look for? Brand and model to look for would be nice.

As far as the pistol, I would only get one to make it easier to SBR it.

[David]

Trusts are done so that many people in the trust could all be in lawful possession of the items/property. They were also used to skirt the CLEO signature requirement. Now, they all fall in the same category of what has to be done to the individuals for ownership. Everyone or responsible person get finger printed, photographed, background checked etc. Trusts are still beneficial as a tool for the proper management of property within a family etc. However, if you don't have a family or the likes, they may not really benefit you (may have some asset protection for you personally).

Every new NFA item that you acquire requires new prints, photos, $200 tax, and forms submitted.