Glocks - get them while you can

[dee]

Should I buy these grips?

http://www.handmadegrips.com/gun-man...uer-grips-ss15

Only if the Sig is Nickel plated.

[YALE]

Only if the Sig is Nickel plated.

If open carry passes, it's getting engraved and nickel plated.

[FunFordCobra]

Dohctr why are p7's so great?

[Moose242]

Dohctr why are p7's so great?

Calling Mr. Slowyellow.

[slowyellow]

Dohctr why are p7's so great?

Calling Mr. Slowyellow.

SWEET JESUS is somebody doubting the great P7?? I really don't feel like typing it, but they were WAY ahead of their time as far as design goes. I feel that it truly is the perfect concealed carry gun... Here is a pretty good break down of it, stolen from HKpro.com

The HK P7 is a very intriguing design. Even more so is the background why it is designed the way it is. It was not because the designer Helmut Weldle wanted it just to be different. Look at it from the aspect of the user prevailing (surviving) in a gun fight. The ENTIRE pistol is designed with that one goal in mind – to give the user minute advantages in speed, accuracy and ease of use needed to survive the violent, rapid, high stress, reactionary nature of gun fights.

According to law enforcement statistics the average gun fight is over in seconds (@ 3-5), often it occurs under low light conditions and usually it is at ranges under 7 yards. Some time the good guy starts from a disadvantage with the weapon holstered and the bad guy with the element of surprise. Thus the optimum gun fighters’ tool to prevail as the good guy would have to be;

1. Fast to make ready and to fire and;
2. Easy and non-sequential to make ready and fire AND to “make safe” afterwards and;
3. Accurate and reliable enough for the task at hand.

For the P7 the controversial caliber and related terminal effectiveness parameters were already set by the German police as 9x19mm Parabellum when they asked for candidates.

Weldle looked at gun fight stats and based his development on those factors with these goals achieved in the design.

1. Fast
The P7 can be fired in three ways with no sequence required. Squeeze Cocker first, then Trigger (preferred), Trigger then Squeeze Cocker, or both at once. So the P7 goes from uncocked and "safe" with a round chambered (which was a requirement for it – a chambered round inside yet still safe to carry that way) to a firing condition instantly. It can be upholstered and “all systems squeezed” to provide a very fast first shot. There is no manual safety to find or fool with as was the case with many semi-autos in the 1970s when it was designed. It is also fast to reload with the cocking lever acting as the slide release.

2. Easy
Under extreme stress the pistol must be able to be used easily when fine motor skills disappear and past training takes over. There are no sequential steps to fire the P7 and it is even easier to “make safe” by simply releasing the cocking lever – gun goes uncocked but still with a round in the chamber. No manual safety to engage, no decocking lever to actuate. Relaxing the hand is a simple task.

3. Accurate
How much accuracy does one need to hit a man-sized target at 7 yards or less? – not much. However accuracy can also be defined as the ability to get rounds on target quickly and instinctually, not the size of the group (aka precision). In that regard the physical layout of the P7 is purpose-designed with a select grip-to-barrel angle (same as your index finger related to the center of your palm) thus what you look at and point your finger at the pistol follows. The entire operating system, in particular the gas retardation system and fixed barrel, was developed anew to lower the P7’s center of gravity into the center of the hand to reduce the slide height and resulting muzzle whip that adversely affects rapid follow up shots. It aims naturally because it fits the hand well.

The full time SA trigger makes it easy to break each shot without the need to deal with a heavy 10+ pound and long length of travel DA or DA Only trigger pull. The squeeze cocking design allows the safe use of a SA trigger system with its resulting excellent trigger pull without the need for a manual safety, and still remain a safe system. How many other SA pistols are safe without their manual safety engaged?

Sure the P7 is safe and includes many unique safety features by design but safety during the gun fight was not a prime mover in the concept, that is beyond making it safe to carry before and after its actual use during the gun fight. The ambi mag release, adjustable sights, loaded chamber indicator extractor, slim snag-free profile and other features on the P7 are nice-to-haves as well and add to the overall package but were not core concerns as they play a minor to no factor in the classic gun fight scenario, at least that of the era of the 1970’s.

Many folks complain of the tiny and for some hard to engage slide stop and heat build up in the gas system after 3 or 4 magazines in rapid fire. That in itself reveals the true intent of the P7 as a pure gun fighter’s tool. Weldle didn’t care about that. You would never use the slide stop in a gun fight and likely never get out of the first magazine either so they are not factors. Thus is the reason why the Germans were always satisfied with 8+1 rounds (The 13-shot P7M13 was an American idea).

This is why with P7’s you either get it or don’t. They were not intended to be range guns but serious tools with a very specific purpose in mind.

[slowyellow]

And now I'm going to post pics of it! Just in case you didn't know how funny they look.







And DOHCTR, did you order these grips yet?

[slowyellow]

And, my whole family of them. (lower one is the one in the above pics before a refinish and grips.)

[03trubluGT]

I have manipulated a P7 and I wasn't a fan.

[Moose242]

Dont forget the fluted chamber, polygonal rifling, a fixed barrel so you need no nielson device to suppress, gas piston operation, and ballin ass trigger!


Also:

[Moose242]

And DOHCTR, did you order these grips yet?

No but I probably will when I get back home. They are just so beautiful that I would feel bad carrying them.

I also like how Glock people pretend that HK has never made any other pistols aside from the USP series. I hope this has been enlightening

Next on my list is a p7k3 or the other 2 conversions for my HK4.

[slowyellow]

I have manipulated a P7 and I wasn't a fan.

I'm assuming by your statement that you didn't shoot one. That's when you really become a fan.

And as a disclaimer, they are not good ranges guns. They heat up very quickly, but that wasn't why they were designed. They are very accurate, and reliable right out of the box.

[FunFordCobra]

I love HKs. I'm just a new owner and still don't know their entire line yet. The P7 looks pretty cool. Just might be my next purchase. I kinda wish I got the p7 instead of the p2000 9mm I bought to carry.. I'll never get rid of my usp45 though. My favorite gun.

[slowyellow]

I love HKs. I'm just a new owner and still don't know their entire line yet. The P7 looks pretty cool. Just might be my next purchase. I kinda wish I got the p7 instead of the p2000 9mm I bought to carry.. I'll never get rid of my usp45 though. My favorite gun.

They are sometimes hard to find. They aren't made anymore, but you can find a refurb'd one every now and then.

[slowyellow]

No but I probably will when I get back home. They are just so beautiful that I would feel bad carrying them.

I also like how Glock people pretend that HK has never made any other pistols aside from the USP series. I hope this has been enlightening

Next on my list is a p7k3 or the other 2 conversions for my HK4.

Good luck with that. Last time I checked, that K3 conversion was outrageous. It'd be cool, but I'd rather just put 9MM through it for the price difference.

The grips are a little pricey, and damn if the checkering isn't sharp enough to really leave a good impression on your side if you know what I mean. Stock grips are probably the best for carry, go figure huh?

[FunFordCobra]

Wow shit, they are 2k+ $$$??