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Old 10-03-2018, 07:42 AM   #301
blownaltered
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I started taking testosterone about 3 months ago. Went from 203 to 920 test levels. Was going to the low T center but just switched to my doctor so I could get it from walgreens. $40 for 3 months and have my wife give me a shot is a hell of a lot better than $250 a month for the low T center. The people over there were nice but after the first month they don't do shit besides give you a shot once a week. They only do labs every few months, so whats the point of paying that amount. My wife is a nurse so getting shots at home is a lot easier and cheaper.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:26 AM   #302
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It's amazing how quickly the decline can happen, I tested at 850 or so just 3 years ago (39 yo), and was at just over 300 when I started TRT a month and a half ago. I can tell a slight difference at this point, and tested to be 530 this last time, so the needle is moving, but nothing monumental at this point. Our goal is to get it up to 800-900, and I've been told it's a long game, such that most guys don't really start feeling better until 6 months in or so. Has that been y'all's experience?

Fortunately I've got great insurance, so it's not costing me anything out of pocket, but if things don't change significantly, I don't know that it's worth the hassle of weekly shots.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:56 AM   #303
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It's amazing how quickly the decline can happen, I tested at 850 or so just 3 years ago (39 yo), and was at just over 300 when I started TRT a month and a half ago. I can tell a slight difference at this point, and tested to be 530 this last time, so the needle is moving, but nothing monumental at this point. Our goal is to get it up to 800-900, and I've been told it's a long game, such that most guys don't really start feeling better until 6 months in or so. Has that been y'all's experience?

Fortunately I've got great insurance, so it's not costing me anything out of pocket, but if things don't change significantly, I don't know that it's worth the hassle of weekly shots.
I was really low, so I felt it immediately. It did take around 7 months to get the level honed in to where I wasnt riding the roller coaster every week.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:10 AM   #304
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Everyone is different, but it is not a quick fix. You feel better and better over time, so to reach the full benefit I would say 6mo is reasonable. The shots are not great, but it is what it is and it is worth the trouble.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:56 PM   #305
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Used to be one called Androtest that everyone said was the real deal.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:55 PM   #306
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Used to be one called Androtest that everyone said was the real deal.
It never hurts to switch esters every so often. I keep some Androtardyl (Enanthate) and run it for a couple of weeks to get off off Test Cipionate.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:49 PM   #307
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It never hurts to switch esters every so often. I keep some Androtardyl (Enanthate) and run it for a couple of weeks to get off off Test Cipionate.
Why?
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:41 AM   #308
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It never hurts to switch esters every so often. I keep some Androtardyl (Enanthate) and run it for a couple of weeks to get off off Test Cipionate.
Lot of the older guys at the gym would take Androtest and say they couldn't believe it worked that well. iirc it was one of those herbal T boosters... Tribulus? I can't remember the name. Anyway some plant you can eat boosts T really well.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:49 AM   #309
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Why?
It has to do with your body adapting to your current estor and not breaking it down fully giving you the full effects if the test it is bound to.

When I went to Androtardyl (Enanthate) after being on Testosterone Cipionate for 2 years, I felt like the Androtardyl had me sleeping better but it was just my body was used to my regular trt med. The switch had me feeling right back to when I first started. I used it for about 6 months then back to my cipionate vials. I've made the switch a few times over the past 3 years on trt.

Most of that switching back and forth boiled down to availability of my meds from the states ir from what I could get from pharmacy in Niger.

That said, I'm on a little bit higher dose, out of the realm of trt right now. I was prescribed 180mg e7d. Typically my pin came out to 200mg just for even math. After blood work last r&r my doc said my liver, kidney, PSA, reds, HDL, all looked the best she had ever seen from me. So I upped it to 250mg for 1 months e7d. Then went to 250mg e5d for a month and I've been on 210mg e3d for the past 2 weeks. I'll continue it for another 3 weeks then do labs here on base and drop back to 210mg e7d for a month. Sort of a mini cycle on test only to prep for summer vacation
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:52 AM   #310
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Lot of the older guys at the gym would take Androtest and say they couldn't believe it worked that well. iirc it was one of those herbal T boosters... Tribulus? I can't remember the name. Anyway some plant you can eat boosts T really well.
In my 20s I thought I could get some gains by Nutrex Vitrex test booster. I was on that stuff for a while an I think it contributed to shutting down my natural test production.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:58 AM   #311
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Unless someone is seriously OD'ing on a natural test booster, I don't think that's possible. In reality I don't think any OTC test booster is worth a flip for gains much less shut down your natural production.

I could be wrong though. I only take it as part of a PCT regimen to ramp up my natural production.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:12 PM   #312
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It has to do with your body adapting to your current estor and not breaking it down fully giving you the full effects if the test it is bound to.

When I went to Androtardyl (Enanthate) after being on Testosterone Cipionate for 2 years, I felt like the Androtardyl had me sleeping better but it was just my body was used to my regular trt med. The switch had me feeling right back to when I first started. I used it for about 6 months then back to my cipionate vials. I've made the switch a few times over the past 3 years on trt.

Most of that switching back and forth boiled down to availability of my meds from the states ir from what I could get from pharmacy in Niger.

That said, I'm on a little bit higher dose, out of the realm of trt right now. I was prescribed 180mg e7d. Typically my pin came out to 200mg just for even math. After blood work last r&r my doc said my liver, kidney, PSA, reds, HDL, all looked the best she had ever seen from me. So I upped it to 250mg for 1 months e7d. Then went to 250mg e5d for a month and I've been on 210mg e3d for the past 2 weeks. I'll continue it for another 3 weeks then do labs here on base and drop back to 210mg e7d for a month. Sort of a mini cycle on test only to prep for summer vacation
Are you pinning yourself? I would like to have the flexibility to try something similar, but can't bring myself to do the injections. It's just as well though, because I'd probably end up at 1,000mg a week and seriously injured trying to lift like I was 25 again.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:11 PM   #313
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Are you pinning yourself? I would like to have the flexibility to try something similar, but can't bring myself to do the injections. It's just as well though, because I'd probably end up at 1,000mg a week and seriously injured trying to lift like I was 25 again.
The first two times you'll be sitting in your bathroom for a solid 15 minutes trying to stick yourself while in a full blown sweat. It wasn't natural to self inflict bodily pain.

After few times, it's nothing. I actually have a small area that must not have many nerves cause it just glides in like warm butter.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:56 PM   #314
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Are you pinning yourself? I would like to have the flexibility to try something similar, but can't bring myself to do the injections. It's just as well though, because I'd probably end up at 1,000mg a week and seriously injured trying to lift like I was 25 again.
George is right. My first times sucked. It was summer and I had to pin while sitting in the port-a-johns baking in the sub saharan desert. If it wasn't the heat, I'd still have sweated bullets. Then there had been times where you jab and the needle hit something that said STOP and I immediately pulled it out instead of going deeper. Thin 23ga needles dull real fast. Sometimes I'd have to try 3-4 times to inject once.

I had always pin in the side if my thigh. Last month I started to pin my glutes in the top of my ass. Much easier actually. I have to use a mirror to see because I can't tell if the needle is even in otherwise.

I'm 43 and I hit the weights harder than the 20-something troops in our gyms. But i go into the gym by myself, leave my smartphone in the office, and go in with a plan and goals in mind. Too many sit around on their phones or chatting with their bros.

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Old 05-21-2019, 08:33 AM   #315
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Damn, 23ga?! I use a 25ga and have to warm up the vial in my hand for a few minutes to thin it up. Otherwise it's thick and is difficult to inject in your other arm. It's kind of an awkward position.

I remember pulling out before and thinking...dammit, now I have to stick myself twice, lol.

Keith, you had mentioned once that you take the AI three days after pinning. Any particular reason why? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else so I was just wondering if you came across some beneficial info as to why.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:03 AM   #316
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Damn, 23ga?! I use a 25ga and have to warm up the vial in my hand for a few minutes to thin it up. Otherwise it's thick and is difficult to inject in your other arm. It's kind of an awkward position.

I remember pulling out before and thinking...dammit, now I have to stick myself twice, lol.

Keith, you had mentioned once that you take the AI three days after pinning. Any particular reason why? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere else so I was just wondering if you came across some beneficial info as to why.
Well, I've since wised up and gone to 25ga. My Test is 210mg/ml and I put the barrel of the syringe in my arm pit for a minute. Heck I've used 250mg/ml test and 25ga but it us quite difficult to push even warmed up.

The anastrozole I use is pretty effective the day you take it and only take a half dose at .5mg. I was told 3 days after the pin because that is when the ester breaks down and the test is absorbed. So the time right.

On this mild cycle right now I've been off the AI and I probably wont get back on until after my physical in July...it is bad on lipid panel.

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Old 05-21-2019, 10:35 AM   #317
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I was told 48 hours after injection.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:28 PM   #318
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It has to do with your body adapting to your current estor and not breaking it down fully giving you the full effects if the test it is bound to.
Sounds like Bro Science

Cypionate and enanthate are slightly different compounds, but I'd say the difference in how you feel is ~100% due to the compounds themselves, not your body changing and adapting to anything over time.
Oversimplified here, but an ester (used to deliver the T into the body) is a carbon chain with an oxygen atom attached by a double bond, which makes it polar and attracted to water. When it comes in contact with water in the body it starts the hydrolysis process and the carbon chain begins to break down (releasing the T attached to it). The longer the carbon chain, the longer the half life, and the slower the release of T into the body. Cypionate is a C8 chain and enanthate is a C7 chain, so you get a slightly quicker release with Test-E.

Also, due to the fact that there's one less carbon atom in each chain (which leaves more room for other stuff on a per-volume basis) one unit of Test-E will actually have more actual testosterone than one unit of Test-C... so if you didn't change your injection dose, you were likely getting ever so slightly more testosterone in your system when you went to E.

And having said all that, medically they're thought of as "functionally interchangeable" so everything I wrote could be too small to ever notice and it could all be in your head

Clear as mud, right? Were you doing labs on each for comparison, or just going by feel?

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Old 05-21-2019, 12:43 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Strychnine View Post
Sounds like Bro Science

Cypionate and enanthate are slightly different compounds, but I'd say the difference in how you feel is ~100% due to the compounds themselves, not your body changing and adapting to anything over time.
Oversimplified here, but an ester (used to deliver the T into the body) is a carbon chain with an oxygen molecule attached by a double bond, which makes it polar and attracted to water. When it comes in contact with water in the body it starts the hydrolysis process and the carbon chain begins to break down (releasing the T attached to it). The longer the carbon chain, the longer the half life, and the slower the release of T into the body. Cypionate is a C8 chain and enanthate is a C7 chain, so you get a slightly quicker release with Test-E.

Also, due to the fact that there's one less carbon atom in each chain (which leaves more room for other stuff on a per-volume basis) one unit of Test-E will actually have more actual testosterone than one unit of Test-C... so if you didn't change your injection dose, you were likely getting ever so slightly more testosterone in your system when you went to E.

And having said all that, medically they're thought of as "functionally interchangeable" so everything I wrote could be too small to ever notice and it could all be in your head

Clear as mud, right? Were you doing labs on each for comparison, or just going by feel?
Makes perfect sense, though if you are adjusting your dose to hit a specific overall and free T range, all this means is that you are injecting more or less of a given ester per week. Beer versus wine versus bourbon.
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Old 05-24-2019, 06:52 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strychnine View Post
Sounds like Bro Science

Cypionate and enanthate are slightly different compounds, but I'd say the difference in how you feel is ~100% due to the compounds themselves, not your body changing and adapting to anything over time.
Oversimplified here, but an ester (used to deliver the T into the body) is a carbon chain with an oxygen atom attached by a double bond, which makes it polar and attracted to water. When it comes in contact with water in the body it starts the hydrolysis process and the carbon chain begins to break down (releasing the T attached to it). The longer the carbon chain, the longer the half life, and the slower the release of T into the body. Cypionate is a C8 chain and enanthate is a C7 chain, so you get a slightly quicker release with Test-E.

Also, due to the fact that there's one less carbon atom in each chain (which leaves more room for other stuff on a per-volume basis) one unit of Test-E will actually have more actual testosterone than one unit of Test-C... so if you didn't change your injection dose, you were likely getting ever so slightly more testosterone in your system when you went to E.

And having said all that, medically they're thought of as "functionally interchangeable" so everything I wrote could be too small to ever notice and it could all be in your head

Clear as mud, right? Were you doing labs on each for comparison, or just going by feel?
Probably a little right about being broscience. I did find this while researching.
Steroid Remaining After Ester is Removed
100mg Testosterone Propionate = 83.72mg Testosterone (288.4244/344.4877=0.8372560181)
100mg Testosterone Enanthate = 71.99mg Testosterone (288.4244/400.5940=0.719991812)
100mg Testosterone Cypionate = 69.9mg Testosterone (288.4244/412.6047=0.6990332393)
So at 200mg I was getting just a slight bit more test per dose with the Enanthate.

I am back on the Cypionate now and have been for a while. I only have a 250mg/ml vial of Enanthate as an emergency reserve. I have a bunch of Cypionate here with me and 20ml reserves at home still. I will be back on TRT level doses though by mid June though. I don't need to freak my doc out with bloodwork when I go in mid July.

I would have liked to have done labs for comparison but I was usually back on Test C by the time I got home and did blood work. I did find that I can go to the civilian clinic here on base and do labs. Lipid panel results the same day but test labs have to be sent to Dubai and takes a few days. When I come off the 200mg e3d and get back to 200mg e7d I will do labs to see where I stand before my work physical first of July. I really don't want to add in cholesterol meds but I might have to to get my LDL down.
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