SpaceX just made history.

[mschmoyer]

Once you can recharge the battery in 5 minutes and refilling said battery doesn't effect how much power it can hold then energy density will no longer matter. Imagine how you would feel if every time you drained your gas tank to near empty and re-filled the gas tank it held 0.001 percent less gas just like a battery does.

I wouldn't "feel" that, just like I don't "feel" that with my smart phone. Years later, the car is just not charging as well, so you get a new battery. Not unlike any gasoline car today running worse after years of use.
Also, a significant reduction in moving parts in an electric system should help offset replacing a battery eventually. Gas cars will be replacing transmissions, fuel-related parts, spark plugs, emissions junk, etc.

[svauto-erotic855]

I wouldn't "feel" that, just like I don't "feel" that with my smart phone. Years later, the car is just not charging as well, so you get a new battery. Not unlike any gasoline car today running worse after years of use.
Also, a significant reduction in moving parts in an electric system should help offset replacing a battery eventually. Gas cars will be replacing transmissions, fuel-related parts, spark plugs, emissions junk, etc.

I guess that I should have also mentioned that the percentage drop is under ideal circumstances. If you live in the southwest your battery life will be about 1/3 of the life you could expect in a milder climate. Extremely cold climates will also cut your range by about 40 percent but will have a minimal effect on battery life. You are also making a very false assumption that electrical components never fail; they do and do so often. A great deal of the profit in my business comes from replacing failed electrical components including PM electric motors that are identical in construction, materials, and design to the ones used in cars. I have replaced 4 of them this week alone.

[Ruffdaddy]

I guess that I should have also mentioned that the percentage drop is under ideal circumstances. If you live in the southwest your battery life will be about 1/3 of the life you could expect in a milder climate. Extremely cold climates will also cut your range by about 40 percent but will have a minimal effect on battery life. You are also making a very false assumption that electrical components never fail; they do and do so often. A great deal of the profit in my business comes from replacing failed electrical components including PM electric motors that are identical in construction, materials, and design to the ones used in cars. I have replaced 4 of them this week alone.

Yet again you show your complete and utter lack if knowledge here. I can assure you that the electric motors you replace aren't even close to identical in any of the categories you mentioned to the motors in a Tesla or even a leaf.

And no one calls you out of your ignorance of low cost rocketry and their application because they either don't care, or they haven't worked with the former firefly guys. I'm sure they haven't been to the machine shops that had expensive parts made from superalloys sitting around never to be paid for. You are trying to crawfish from your original statements on rockets just like you're doing now bouncing all over the map on electric cars.

[svauto-erotic855]

Yet again you show your complete and utter lack if knowledge here. I can assure you that the electric motors you replace aren't even close to identical in any of the categories you mentioned to the motors in a Tesla or even a leaf.

And no one calls you out of your ignorance of low cost rocketry and their application because they either don't care, or they haven't worked with the former firefly guys. I'm sure they haven't been to the machine shops that had expensive parts made from superalloys sitting around never to be paid for. You are trying to crawfish from your original statements on rockets just like you're doing now bouncing all over the map on electric cars.

The motors I am referring to are THE EXACT SAME DESIGN AND MADE FROM THE EXACT SAME MATERIALS USING THE EXACT SAME CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES as the ones used in car, they are just smaller. You simply know nothing about them to be able to say that I am mistaken. I am not talking about conventional motors.

My information on the rockets came directly from NASA. Fireflys design was a copy of one designed by NASA to lower the cost so we could go to Mars. We never made that trip for the reasons I mentioned. I stick with every statement that I make.

[red89notch]

I wouldn't "feel" that, just like I don't "feel" that with my smart phone. Years later, the car is just not charging as well, so you get a new battery. Not unlike any gasoline car today running worse after years of use.
Also, a significant reduction in moving parts in an electric system should help offset replacing a battery eventually. Gas cars will be replacing transmissions, fuel-related parts, spark plugs, emissions junk, etc.

Do you know how expensive those high voltage batteries are? I have never priced a Tesla battery but I know an S class hybrid battery is $18,000 and a Smart electric battery is $28,000. But at least they don't have to replace spark plugs and O2 sensors.

[svauto-erotic855]

Do you know how expensive those high voltage batteries are? I have never priced a Tesla battery but I know an S class hybrid battery is $18,000 and a Smart electric battery is $28,000. But at least they don't have to replace spark plugs and O2 sensors.

The Tesla battery pack has 3500 18650 cells that are higher than average quality. The best wholesale price I have ever seen is just under 5 bucks per cell for cells with comprable quality when you buy 10k or more. Musk is building a factory to make just the cells to bring the cost down.

Edit: I haven't crunched the numbers but I suspect that a battery cost about as much as the gasoline that would have been used for the equivalent milage driven while requiring about 2/3rd's more energy being expended to charge the battery vs just using the carbon fuel to move the car without having the power company as a middle man.

[Gasser64]

Do you know how expensive those high voltage batteries are? I have never priced a Tesla battery but I know an S class hybrid battery is $18,000 and a Smart electric battery is $28,000. But at least they don't have to replace spark plugs and O2 sensors.

I'd love to see that comparison. All those ice repairs and maintenance, are definitely going to be a hell of a lot more than they ever would be on an electric. With the one exception of the battery. Then you can throw in gasoline, vs electricity. Electricity coming out to roughly the same as paying a dollar per gallon of gas. If I had to hazard some kind of guess, over a 10 year period I'd guess that the electric ends up costing something like 30-40% less than the ice car.

[Ruffdaddy]

The motors I am referring to are THE EXACT SAME DESIGN AND MADE FROM THE EXACT SAME MATERIALS USING THE EXACT SAME CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES as the ones used in car, they are just smaller. You simply know nothing about them to be able to say that I am mistaken. I am not talking about conventional motors.

My information on the rockets came directly from NASA. Fireflys design was a copy of one designed by NASA to lower the cost so we could go to Mars. We nevreer made that trip for the reasons I mentioned. I stick with every statement that I make.

Firefly was never about mars you dumbass, the target was small satellites at low cost. The spirit airlines of space That's why you are full of shit (among an ever growing list of reasons now).

Prove to me that the tolerances, materials and design are the same. Oh wait....you still owe me proof of the never ending oil well...

[svauto-erotic855]

Firefly was never about mars you dumbass, the target was small satellites at low cost. The spirit airlines of space That's why you are full of shit (among an ever growing list of reasons now).

Prove to me that the tolerances, materials and design are the same. Oh wait....you still owe me proof of the never ending oil well...

I never made the claim that Firefly was trying to explore the solar system. What I said if you will take the time to re-read what I wrote is that Firefly copied a design that was developed by NASA to be used by NASA for exploring the solar system and the first stop that NASA had in mind was Mars.

Hi-dollar pool pumps use permanent magnet variable speed DC motors that are controlled by PWM and even run at the same high voltage that a car does. The comercial 30-500 horsepower ones used for water features are made exactly the same as a motor in a car. The lower powered ones are made the same way but cost is more of a factor for the smaller ones so I am sure that they weigh in less per horsepower then the ones used in a car. The exact manufacturing specs are information that no one outside of the company that manufacturers them will have access to.

I never found the article about the shield rock formation oil well that got drilled simply because no online records for the magazine the article was written in went back that far. The next time I move I am sure that I will find it. In the mean time you can read all about shield rock formation wells to your hearts content. It was big news when I read about it but it is old hat now.

[jw33]

So the the Tesla model S uses a permanent magnet D.C. motor?

[svauto-erotic855]

So the the Tesla model S uses a permanent magnet D.C. motor?

That is the technology that allows them to vary the speed.

[jw33]

So I guess the magnets are what make the car so heavy...

[svauto-erotic855]

So I guess the magnets are what make the car so heavy...

No, that is silly. It is what saves about 50% of the electricity as used by an old style electric motor. They are not very big.

[AnthonyS]

Gas prices aren't going up long term unless it's driven by greed and profit taking (which is always the real cause). Gasoline is cheap especially if you strip away taxes and profit speculating. We can literally have as much as we want and cheaply. And my new pos ram truck has a range of at least 400 miles and isn't sitting on a battery pack that once it catches on fire can't be put out until all the chemical energy is consumed.

[Broncojohnny]

Gas prices aren't going up long term unless it's driven by greed and profit taking (which is always the real cause). Gasoline is cheap especially if you strip away taxes and profit speculating. We can literally have as much as we want and cheaply. And my new pos ram truck has a range of at least 400 miles and isn't sitting on a battery pack that once it catches on fire can't be put out until all the chemical energy is consumed.

I am not sure if this is true. Strychnine can certainly weigh in, as he is the most educated here, but I have read a few analytical reports that say when the off shore wells start to drop in production that the price will go back up because those wells produce a lot of crude (30% of global supply) and they are not feasible to replace at current pricing because they are very capital intensive and take a lot of lead time.