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Old 12-02-2017, 10:05 AM   #1
Forever_frost
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Default Senate passes sweeping GOP tax plan in early hours of Saturday morning

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politi...nty/index.html

(CNN)The Senate passed its tax reform bill in the early hour of Saturday morning, following a day full of Republican leaders making changes to bring enough members on board and a long night full of heated rhetoric on both sides of the aisle.

The vote was 51-49, mostly along party lines. Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee was the only Republican to vote against the bill, citing concerns about growing the deficit.

Congressional negotiators continued to make changes to the bill -- including handwriting alterations on to the document -- up until just hours before the final vote, with Democrats sharply criticizing Republicans for not giving members enough time to read the sweeping legislation that would overhaul the US tax system.
The House of Representatives approved its own tax reform plan last month, and the two chambers are expected to go to conference to reconcile the two bills, but passing the legislation Saturday was a huge victory for Senate Republicans and President Donald Trump, both looking for significant legislative achievements.
Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake, a key holdout, announced just after noon that he would back the plan. Republicans could pass the legislation with 50 members and a tie-breaking vote from Vice President Mike Pence, but after Sen. Susan Collins of Maine announced her support Friday afternoon, Pence's would-be vote was unnecessary, as Collins' vote brought the tally to 51. Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee is the only expected Republican to vote no.

"We have the votes," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said walking to the Senate floor following a conference meeting Friday.
Following the vote in the chamber -- which happened just before 2 a.m. ET -- Republicans bestowed a hefty number of backslaps and handshakes with lawmakers who have been integral in the process including Sen. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Rob Portman of Ohio. While Senate Whip John Cornyn of Texas stood over the vote tallying sheet watching it closely, McConnell stood to the side. At one point the Majority Leader looked up at Pence, who was presiding, pointed at the VP, winked, and gave him a thumbs up.
In a public statement announcing his support, Flake said he was given promises from Senate GOP leadership and the Trump administration for a "growth-oriented legislative solution" to protect recipients of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

Republican leaders were racing Thursday night and Friday morning to find support for the bill, hoping to avoid a repeat of the health care bill debacle this summer that left them empty handed. Tensions were running high in the Senate, where Republican tax writers were reworking the tax bill, trying to find a way to satisfy competing interests and shore up votes.
The bill received a major boost Friday morning when Daines announced he would back the bill, after he was assured of "significant tax relief for Main Street businesses." Johnson later Friday morning issued a statement supporting the bill.
Senate Republicans met earlier in the Strom Thurmond Room of the Capitol to continue the bill's negotiation Friday morning. Collins, a key undecided vote, said GOP leaders are still "working through a few more of my issues" but as she was walking toward the conference meeting, she said, "We're making great progress."
But behind the scenes, Republican members and aides were fuming at Corker, who was demanding last-minute offsets for the GOP tax bill out of fear that it would raise the deficit. Corker's demands weren't entirely new, but were crystallized further Thursday afternoon when the Joint Committee on Taxation, the independent tax scorekeeper, announced that even with projected economic growth, the Republican tax bill still would add more than $1 trillion to the deficit over 10 years. Then, Corker learned that a trigger he demanded in the tax bill that would automatically increase taxes if the tax legislation didn't generate the growth that Republicans anticipated, wouldn't pass Senate rules and couldn't be included.
RELATED: Bob Corker's $1 trillion tax reform problem

The news led to Corker holding court on the Senate floor on and off for nearly an hour as an amendment vote was held open and dozens of reporters filled the Senate chamber to watch the drama unfold from above.
As CNN reported earlier Thursday, a throng of Republicans encircled Corker and Flake as Sen. Pat Toomey, a member on the Senate Finance Committee who has cut deals with Corker on the tax bill already, stood next to Corker, explaining something at length.
At one point, the Senate's Parliamentarian came over and Corker used his hands to try to convey a point to her for several minutes.
Corker walked across the chamber to speak with Sen. Angus King, an independent from Maine. The two men looked over some papers, then walked back over the Republican huddle. Corker asked more questions. At one point Toomey grew audibly frustrated, this time standing face-to-face with the Tennessee Republican.
"Furious," one aide responded when asked how GOP senators were responding behind closed doors to what Corker did on the floor. "Didn't need to be done publicly. Didn't need to cause a scene. We know it's a problem. Fix it behind closed doors."

Right now, according to aides, staff and senators are working through several different proposals to try to address Corker's issues -- issues that grew more problematic with the JCT report.
Corker, according to aides, wants even more revenue than the trigger would've snapped into effect.
"When the trigger doesn't work, you have to come up with, I think, $350 billion," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina. "That makes everything different. So, we'll get there, because failure's not an option."

There were a few options for getting back the revenue, but none of them would satisfy the entire conference. One option, Texas Sen. John Cornyn floated, would be to gradually raise the corporate tax rate, which Republicans had planned to lower to 20%. That would surely upset House Republicans and Trump who had lobbied aggressively to drop the corporate tax rate to 15%. The other option was to not completely repeal the alternative minimum tax, a levy that is used to ensure wealthy individuals cannot just use tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes all together.
Sen. John McCain says he'll vote for Senate GOP tax plan

Sen. John McCain says he'll vote for Senate GOP tax plan
But Republicans were still working on how to put the pieces together.
McConnell can afford to lose two Republican senators, but with so many competing concerns, leadership will have to make tough decisions about who to appease based on the math. Flake joins Corker in sharing concerns about the deficit and GOP aides say leaders now view Corker and Flake as a package deal, meaning they either assuage their concerns, or figure out a way not to lose any other senators if they want to pass the bill at all.

Johnson had tried to lobby leadership to give so-called pass-throughs -- businesses that pass profits to owners who pay taxes on the individual side -- additional tax breaks. Collins, who was a key "no" vote on health care also must be won over. Collins has asked leadership and the Trump administration to promise her that they will support a package that she says would help stabilize the Obamacare marketplace after Republicans repeal the individual mandate in their tax bill. She has also asked leadership to include a provision that would allow individuals to deduct state and local property taxes up to $10,000.
The predicament leadership faces now isn't all that unlike the one they found themselves in on health care. If McConnell appeases Johnson and boosts the tax break for pass-throughs (which costs money), he could alienate Corker and Flake who have lobbied to make the tax bill less expensive. If he appeases Collins, he could face problems with the Senate bill when it goes to conference with the House.
Collins acknowledged the struggle ahead.

"I'm going to have more discussions with the House," Collins told reporters on Thursday evening.
This story has been updated and will continue to update with additional reporting.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:53 AM   #2
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collins is and has been the major gimme pos in congress. fuck obamacare .
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Old 12-02-2017, 08:14 PM   #3
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So brass tacks: Lower taxes?
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:25 PM   #4
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So brass tacks: Lower taxes?
From what I can gather, lower taxes across the board for people that file the standard deduction, adding to the deficit, and castrating Obamacare.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:39 PM   #5
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Based on what I'm seeing:

My tax rate goes UP from 33 to 35%
I think I qualify for the Child Tax Credit ($2000)
I don't get to deduct Colorado's State income taxes.
I do get to deduct Colorado's property taxes as long as that amount is under $10K
I might be able to deduct some of Carpenter's medical expenses. I have to get someone to check that out for me.

I'm basing this off of this article from Business Insider..
http://www.businessinsider.com/whats...-rates-2017-12

This isn't done yet. They could send the bill straight to the House but it is more likely to go to conference committee where a compromise bill will be hammered out. Then both houses have to vote on the compromise. My biggest issue here is the estimates on how much it will drive up the deficit.

BTW, Texans will also lose the ability to deduct their state sales taxes. The property tax deduction is capped at $10K per year. That's going to screw over more than a few people.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Based on what I'm seeing:

My tax rate goes UP from 33 to 35%
I think I qualify for the Child Tax Credit ($2000)
I don't get to deduct Colorado's State income taxes.
I do get to deduct Colorado's property taxes as long as that amount is under $10K
I might be able to deduct some of Carpenter's medical expenses. I have to get someone to check that out for me.

I'm basing this off of this article from Business Insider..
http://www.businessinsider.com/whats...-rates-2017-12

This isn't done yet. They could send the bill straight to the House but it is more likely to go to conference committee where a compromise bill will be hammered out. Then both houses have to vote on the compromise. My biggest issue here is the estimates on how much it will drive up the deficit.

BTW, Texans will also lose the ability to deduct their state sales taxes. The property tax deduction is capped at $10K per year. That's going to screw over more than a few people.
No matter what tax bill passes, someone gets screwed. The only way to make it fair is to either do a flat tax or a VAT. I wish Congress would decide to go lean on spending as opposed to tons of tax cuts. Let's reduce deficit and then cut taxes. We should ditch all welfare and the like and leave it to church, charity, and community instead. Offer tax breaks to donations to those entities and get the outward cash flow off the books. Then, give more incentive for people to save money for retirement. I'm tired of sitting in meetings at work with financial planners advising everyone on how to save when no one is doing it. I shouldn't have to pay a penalty for someone else's stupidity.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Based on what I'm seeing:

My tax rate goes UP from 33 to 35%
I think I qualify for the Child Tax Credit ($2000)
I don't get to deduct Colorado's State income taxes.
I do get to deduct Colorado's property taxes as long as that amount is under $10K
I might be able to deduct some of Carpenter's medical expenses. I have to get someone to check that out for me.

I'm basing this off of this article from Business Insider..
http://www.businessinsider.com/whats...-rates-2017-12

This isn't done yet. They could send the bill straight to the House but it is more likely to go to conference committee where a compromise bill will be hammered out. Then both houses have to vote on the compromise. My biggest issue here is the estimates on how much it will drive up the deficit.

BTW, Texans will also lose the ability to deduct their state sales taxes. The property tax deduction is capped at $10K per year. That's going to screw over more than a few people.

I think with $24k standard deduction that most people will not have the sales tax, property tax, and mortgage interest to itemize.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:28 AM   #8
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I think with $24k standard deduction that most people will not have the sales tax, property tax, and mortgage interest to itemize.
Yea, the standard deduction IS a big improvement IMO. Iíd like to see more in depth analysis on it. Iíd like to know, in general terms, at what point it ceases to work out. Iím going to be in that tax bracket again next year so Iíll be getting a tax guy this time to figure out what to do on things like my charitable deductions and such. Iíll probably be doing a lot more investing next year as well. I did pretty good on that this year.

This thing pretty much kills Obamacare IMO. I donít see how anyone will buy into it now that itís so damn expensive. I have may son on an Obamacare program (Anthem BCBS) because it covers his Autism therapy. Iíve never gotten subsidies for it and the premiums have dramatically risen over the last couple of years. Last year it went from just under $200 a months to $290. This year it goes from $290 to $441 a month. Also, the max out of pocket per year for deductibles and co pay jumped from 3700 to $7350. Fortunately I can afford that and this should be the last year Carpenter is in therapy. I canít imagine how other families are going to deal with this. I seriously expect a lot of kids will lose out next year.

On the flipside, this could force Democrats to the negotiating table to fix several of Obamacareís downsides.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
Based on what I'm seeing:

My tax rate goes UP from 33 to 35%
I think I qualify for the Child Tax Credit ($2000)
I don't get to deduct Colorado's State income taxes.
I do get to deduct Colorado's property taxes as long as that amount is under $10K
I might be able to deduct some of Carpenter's medical expenses. I have to get someone to check that out for me.

I'm basing this off of this article from Business Insider..
http://www.businessinsider.com/whats...-rates-2017-12

This isn't done yet. They could send the bill straight to the House but it is more likely to go to conference committee where a compromise bill will be hammered out. Then both houses have to vote on the compromise. My biggest issue here is the estimates on how much it will drive up the deficit.

BTW, Texans will also lose the ability to deduct their state sales taxes. The property tax deduction is capped at $10K per year. That's going to screw over more than a few people.
No amount of tax cutting can add to the deficit even if taxes are eliminated completely. Only spending can add to a deficit.

The real problem with this tax bill is that they are not trying to reduce taxes by any significant amount. They are just shuffling around how the burden falls on the tax payers by favoring one over the other. A real tax cut should be at least a 500 billion dollar smaller bite per year out of the private sector since the purpose of a tax cut is to keep the government from taking it out of the private sector in the first place. They way you start to reduce spending is to get rid of all of the places that close when ever there is a government shut down; you simply never open them again. After the low hanging fruit is gone you start going after entitlements since 2 out of ever 3 dollars spent by the federal government is on a welfare entitlement.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:34 AM   #10
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No amount of tax cutting can add to the deficit even if taxes are eliminated completely. Only spending can add to a deficit.
Taxes and spending are very much a part of the same equation, I get what you're saying to a degree, but knowing that the government won't cut spending entirely, the amount in taxes coming in absolutely has a direct effect on the deficit.

We're getting out of commiefornia just in time, to not have to worry about not being able to deduct the state income tax. The mortgage interest thing blows, but there's no escaping that one.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:43 AM   #11
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going back as far as Kennedy tax cuts are about growth . cut all you want in spending but with a 1.3 gdp your getting nowhere. when this economy grows at 4% things explode. more revenue to pay down the debt as long as we get rid of the moron liberals who want to give everything away to buy trash votes from welfare queens and illegals .
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:59 AM   #12
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Taxes and spending are very much a part of the same equation, I get what you're saying to a degree, but knowing that the government won't cut spending entirely, the amount in taxes coming in absolutely has a direct effect on the deficit.

We're getting out of commiefornia just in time, to not have to worry about not being able to deduct the state income tax. The mortgage interest thing blows, but there's no escaping that one.
The government spends as much as it wants to regardless of the income coming in. There is effectively no relationship between income and spending. If there were we would have no national debt. Think of an 18 year old hood rat with a credit card with no limit if you want to have a grasp of how the government spends money. The federal government is effectively the action arm of the democrat party and you know who votes almost 95 percent democrat.

We need to take trillions of dollars per year out of the governments control not just billions and at the same time cap what they are allowed to spend. Until that happens the government will continue to grow and become more oppressive by the day.

I can hardly wait until the world gets tired of buying our debt.
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Last edited by svauto-erotic855; 12-03-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:44 PM   #13
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The sooner this country goes broke, meaning the day people stop buying our debt, the better off we all will be. It will be much easier to work out the disaster that is a $20T national debt than one that is much larger. But I digress.

The way to get around the loss of the mortgage interest deduction is to pay off your mortgage and take the standard deduction. I haven't had a mortgage in years, fuck that shit.
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:36 PM   #14
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10% flat tax. No man in all the land, shall pay more than 10% of what he earns to any state, local, or the federal government. Regardless of what label they want to put on it, like SS. They want social programs, they'd better get to figuring on how that factors into that 10%. And they all have to hash it out among themselves as to what their cut is going to be. That should have been the reform.

But eh, he's got a lot more time. We'll be a lot better off in 7 years, either way. Then we'll get another repub potus like happened after Reagan. Just need to make sure its not some POS cia spook like Bush Sr. If we managed to pull another goodguy out of the hat, that could end up being 16 years of win. All while the dems/libs descend into chaos and dissolve.

Also any gambling, or tax from any investments can only be collected in the event that the government coughed up some of the money for the risk. Zero tax on gifts or inheritance as the tax was already paid long ago. Zero tax on used goods of any kind, as the tax was already paid when it was new.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:42 AM   #15
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there will never be a flat tax. that 47% that pay no tax will never let it pass. that is the dem base and i see no way to ever get there.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:29 AM   #16
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there will never be a flat tax. that 47% that pay no tax will never let it pass. that is the dem base and i see no way to ever get there.
The 47% is growing and the 53% is shrinking daily too. As this happens, any chance for economic or tax reform evaporates.
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