Parker County deputy SHOT HIMSELF in the foot!!

[SS Junk]

In video from his body camera, two shots can be heard as he approaches the tree.

Where'd the second shot come from, or was that .380 a Taurus?

[kingjason]

I suspect that the deputy has a serpa holster for his primary weapon and shot himself with that and the backup gun story is a lie as well.

Its is quite common with those style of index (trigger) finger released holsters to have accidental discharges as muscle memory causes the finger to land on the trigger. So much so that lots agencies have banned them from duty.

Nah. When I un holster my finger is indexed perfectly on the frame with my Serpa same as any other holster. You have to consciously put your finger on the trigger. People want to blame everything but poor fire arm handling. Not really my first choice in holsters but not a problem either. I prefer the hood/thumb release but I just haven't went back to it yet. It is a toss up, speed vs a little extra retention.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Nah. When I un holster my finger is indexed perfectly on the frame with my Serpa same as any other holster. You have to consciously put your finger on the trigger. People want to blame everything but poor fire arm handling. Not really my first choice in holsters but not a problem either. I prefer the hood/thumb release but I just haven't went back to it yet. It is a toss up, speed vs a little extra retention.

I carried a safariland with a thumb release, there is way too many videos of cops with serpas pulling their gun and accidentally discharging.

So much so that

LAPD Bans Use Of Serpa


DPD Bans Use Of Serpa

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2014/05/06/dallas-police-ban-type-of-gun-holster-for-safety-reasons

fletc Bans Use Of Serpa

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/imported_files/reference/public-information/freedom-of-information-act-foia/reading-room/training-information/holisterStudy.pdf

Videos illustrating the problem

Trigger finger inside guard at 2:26


Trigger finger on trigger

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Pretty sure they've already confirmed it was the backup weapon strapped to his ankle inside of a holster.

And the weapon mysteriously fired from inside a holster on his ankle? It's pretty hard to determine the wound damage between a 9 and 38 at that distance. I think the officers lying about the back up weapon misfiring because it's embarrassing. It wouldn't be the first time and it wont be the last an officer has said that. Which is why I would lean towards the serpa related misfire

[kingjason]

I carried a safariland with a thumb release, there is way too many videos of cops with serpas pulling their gun and accidentally discharging.

So much so that

LAPD Bans Use Of Serpa


DPD Bans Use Of Serpa

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2014/05/06/dallas-police-ban-type-of-gun-holster-for-safety-reasons

fletc Bans Use Of Serpa

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/imported_files/reference/public-information/freedom-of-information-act-foia/reading-room/training-information/holisterStudy.pdf

Videos illustrating the problem

Trigger finger inside guard at 2:26


Trigger finger on trigger

Second guy is an idiot. Plus 1911's have a bit of hair trigger anyways. So he dropped his thumb safety trying to be fast and shot his self in the leg. Shocking.

Did you know LAPD has a policy stating that you must have all your teeth? You know why? So back in the day they could tear their black powder open. And no I am not just messing with you. I have the full length Serpa and never has my finger just dropped into the trigger guard. Plenty of propaganda out there about rocks getting into the release also. Looks like Dallas just followed LAPD which a shitload of departments do.

I read a few of those, most were bitching about the short holsters, the marines said it was bullshit, and the homeland security one started with a guy pulling the trigger "re-holstering". Also states that they were fine further down but probably not good to use for people not proficient in firearms.

Now all that being said. I am not 100 percent saying you are wrong, I am just saying they are not the monster they are made out to be. Oh and eventually I will go back as soon as I can get a light policy in place. Same deal, one incident "big agency", and now I have to justify why gun lights are safe. I want to go back because I have 14 years using the thumb release and it is just natural to me.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Now all that being said. I am not 100 percent saying you are wrong, I am just saying they are not the monster they are made out to be.

Oh I agree there's always 2 to 3 sides to this, and you are more qualified than I am. So definitely carry what works for you. I just know there are lot of donut eaters that don't practice and those are the ones that can and have had issues. It s not to hard to see that with the adrenaline, moving to cover/support, and finger releasing the gun that muscle memory can put the finger in the wrong location.

[kingjason]

That guys analogy is spot on. Somewhere down the road, I worked at a department that was really into speed. Not only did we qual , three to four times a year, but we did the Paul Howe qualification courses on top of the others. Hell we did all sorts of shit, shooting from cars, dragging people out that were injured while shooting, tons of stuff. Fantastic training for sure, however, lots of guys were losing safety features in the interest of speed. When you can go from holster to between the eyes in under one second, at seven yards, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. I honestly think the training was bad ass and enjoyed it, but like I said there is a fine line between retention VS speed, and yes there are many people that shouldn't carry that holster.

I have seen probably 20 AD in my career from officers on the line. So with some people it doesn't matter what they carry. Really, if you fuck around with firearms enough, it is going to happen, I don't care who you are.

All that being said, I am glad we had this discussion. I will be checking my armory, or ordering my Safariland in the next couple of days. Even though I am comfortable with this holster, the change in release mechanism has always bothered me in the back of my mind. When I unholster, I still use my thumb just as always I am 100 percent sure. It's just a natural motion for me after 16 years. Hard to break old habits. I will say though, anything is better than those damn leather snap holsters I carried. Saw more guns on the ground in the beginning of my career than I care to mention. Hell there was solid video of my Sig bouncing down the street when I was running on a chase one time.

[Rick Modena]

Jason, I definitely appreciate your input and honest opinions on many subjects on guns, holsters, etc. And you're right, AD's do happen and it's happened to me as well.

[AnthonyS]

Blame the holster, blame the gun, blame everything but the person who put their booger hook on the trigger..... guns don’t go off unless you pull the trigger. In the Navy I met one guy that shot hisself in the foot and another that shot hisself in the ass. It’s the person, nothing else. Get careless with firearms and it can happen to you.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

All that being said, I am glad we had this discussion. I will be checking my armory, or ordering my Safariland in the next couple of days. Even though I am comfortable with this holster,

I hope you like it. I found the thumb release natural feeling after practicing with it. And if not let me know I dont want to pretend to be a know it all and talking shit to somebody that has more carry time

[BradM]

I hope you like it. I found the thumb release natural feeling after practicing with it. And if not let me know I dont want to pretend to be a know it all and talking shit to somebody that has more carry time

It does take some getting used to but it doesn't take long. I got pretty fast with it.

[kingjason]

I hope you like it. I found the thumb release natural feeling after practicing with it. And if not let me know I dont want to pretend to be a know it all and talking shit to somebody that has more carry time

I had it with my Glock 35, Sigs, S&W's etc. I only had a button snap for two years maybe, then everything I have ever carried was with the hooded holster mostly. I think I dropped the hood for a while and just used the thumb release. Even with the hood and thumb release I had so many years using them it is automatic for me. I only went with the Serpa because that is what we had when I hired here. I got use to it and no issues. The only reason I haven't ordered a new hooded holster was anticipating going to a gun light so we were hesitant to drop a order that would be wasted. Due to a incident with a gun light at a prior department the boss is hesitant on the lights but not against them. He basically told us a while ago to change his mind, do a little homework, etc. Guess what I did today!

Henry I have holes in the wall right now. A few months ago I wasn't feeling well and when I grabbed my G43 off the counter, pop. Went through the bottom of my coffee pod holder, into the counter where it deflected up, through two walls, and knocked shit off on the other side of my living room in three places. Gold dot doesn't fuck around. Since I pocket carry I always grab it buy the trigger guard and the back of the grip off the counter. For some reason I always squeeze the guard when picking it up. Well, my finger dropped into the trigger guard and pop, and off the counter it went. Actually a little stunning, more so than a actual shoot. 100 percent my fault.

I fuck around with my Glocks so much I know exactly where the breaking point is on the trigger. I have purposely AD'ed my guns a lot in a safe environment. One hand just to the breaking point and sometimes not. When I shoot I am fairly smooth because I know right where the slack ends.

[dcs13]

Due to a incident with a gun light at a prior department the boss is hesitant on the lights but not against them.

HUmm, Would that be the Plano cop shot (and killed) an unarmed man by "accident" and blamed it on the light ?

[John -- '02 HAWK]

HUmm, Would that be the Plano cop shot (and killed) an unarmed man by "accident" and blamed it on the light ?

There's a video of a cop with an ar with a light on it that has an activation switch on a vertical for grip pulling the wrong trigger to turn it off. Think it killed the suspect. But you can see the reaction from officers face that the brain impulse went to the wrong hand.

[kingjason]

Yeah I am not a fan of the pressure mount switch on the grip. I can see that being a problem. I tried it for a month and took it off pretty quick. Try to squeeze your your hand with out moving the trigger finger. Mine took some pressure also. I even shaved the trigger finger tab off of my TLR.

You guys know why until recently police were not allowed to have red dots on their pistols?