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  • #31
    Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
    I would not and do not own anything from under armour.

    Believe it or not firearms follow conventional laws of physics. The equal and opposite reactions part is what causes recoil. You can reduce that a bit by using a muzzle brake but the energy is still there. Every technique used to reduce felt recoil either spreads the recoil out over a longer amount of time or redirects a portion of it.

    The cause of death from a gun shot is typically blood loss. A hit to the central nervous that disrupts critical body functions is less common. For the most part KINETIC ENERGY IS NOT THE CAUSE OF DEATH with small arms for the simple reason that there is not much energy to start with. This is why a knife that is inserted very slowly with nearly ZERO kinetic energy kills just as well as a gunshot.
    The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.
    "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
    "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

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    • #32
      Originally posted by AnthonyS View Post
      Probably.
      All good. How's everything?
      ZOMBIE REAGAN FOR PRESIDENT 2016!!! heh

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      • #33
        Originally posted by CJ View Post
        The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.
        To quote your words from post #18 " That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock.". You implied it again here in the same post; "Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with."

        Getting hit will a 12ga slug is not incredible energy delivery; it is the equivalent to a large man stiff arming you in the chest with an open palm.

        You will not drop like a rock from the kinetic energy but you will drop eventually from blood loss if you take that hit without wearing armor. Even level II armor would be enough to protect you.
        Last edited by svauto-erotic855; 01-26-2018, 10:05 AM.
        Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by YALE View Post
          All good. How's everything?
          Pretty good, how about you? I was just thinking how young we were back in the cheese plant days. That was a long time ago. You ever make it back this way lunch/dinner and beer/cocktails are on me.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by CJ View Post
            The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.
            While we are at it lets discuss kinetic energy and how it relates to death.

            I killed an Elk a few weeks ago with an arrow that has about the same energy as a .22lr. He laid down in 15 feet and died a few minutes later.

            Now lets shoot the same elk with a 12ga at 10 ft using a 1.125 oz load of bird shot moving at 1200fps; nothing happens except a flesh wound. Now lets shoot Mr Elk with a 9 pellet load of 00 buck moving at 1200fps. Nothing will happen unless you are really lucking except for a much deeper flesh wound. Now we shoot Mr Elk again but this time we shoot him with a slug that weighs in at the same 1.125 oz moving at the same 1200 fps and it nearly passes through him while causing enough damage to kill him. Every load had the exact same amount of energy but they penetrate differently and wound differently. Every example 12ga load has about 10 times the energy of my arrow by the way.
            Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
              To quote your words from post #18 " That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock.". You implied it again here in the same post; "Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with."

              Getting hit will a 12ga slug is not incredible energy delivery; it is the equivalent to a large man stiff arming you in the chest with an open palm.

              You will not drop like a rock from the kinetic energy but you will drop eventually from blood loss if you take that hit without wearing armor. Even level II armor would be enough to protect you.
              I even gave you instructions and you failed to read. Try again.
              "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
              "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

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              • #37
                Originally posted by CJ View Post
                Lol, okay bro. You're older. You also clean pools, which is of the same relevance. I noticed you completely crawfished on my point, which was completely valid. I don't give a shit what your custom loads do. A standard 38spc is slow, and buckshot is much higher velocity. Their energy delivery is comparable, which was the whole fucking point you attempted to shit on but have now moved off of.
                One pellet of 00 buck is closer to a .32 than a .38 in energy. I will look up some commercial ammo specs once I get in tonight to be sure this is an accurate statement.
                Last edited by svauto-erotic855; 01-26-2018, 11:53 AM.
                Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
                  One pellet of 00 buck is closer to a .32 than a .38 in energy. I will look up some commercial ammo specs once I get in tonight to be sure this is an accurate statement.
                  What I said was it would drop you, not that it would kill you. When you're on the ground, you're going to get ventilated by the guy who just shot you. No one ever said anything about energy killing you, other than it's a measure of the energy, and useful for comparison.
                  "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
                  "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CJ View Post
                    What I said was it would drop you, not that it would kill you. When you're on the ground, you're going to get ventilated by the guy who just shot you. No one ever said anything about energy killing you, other than it's a measure of the energy, and useful for comparison.
                    No. It will not drop you anymore than it dropped the guy that pulled the triger if you have on armor and the armor prevents penetration. The guy holding the shotgun gets hit with the same force as the guy getting hit by the shot. Without armor you are dead.
                    Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

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                    • #40
                      Standard military buckshot is 1,325 fps, 486 grains of projectiles = 226 ft⋅lbf

                      Hornady JHP 125 gr 900 ft/s = 225 ft⋅lbf

                      This comparison is in the US military field manual for the Remington M870.
                      "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
                      "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
                        No. It will not drop you anymore than it dropped the guy that pulled the triger if you have on armor and the armor prevents penetration. The guy holding the shotgun gets hit with the same force as the guy getting hit by the shot. Without armor you are dead.
                        You do realize armor that "prevents penetration," such as kevlar, will still make your stomach touch your spine when it absorbs that energy? You might also want to brush up your google physics, you're missing huge parts of the equation. If you want a fair comparison on Newtonian physics, fire the 12 gauge off in the palm of your hand. I'll also supply you with a 12 gauge shell and a chamber to do this as well.

                        I like your confidence, I'd also really like to see you put a vest on and show me who's boss. It sounds like you're going to brush it off like a hard rain while firing tight groups while you're attacked.

                        The truth is, in the real world if you took a 12ga buckshot to the chest, you're dead. I don't care what fucking armor you're wearing. For your theory to work, based on extensive google research and elk hunting, you would have to take every pellet in an e-sapi plate, whilst holding your hands behind your back and looking away. This shot would also have to take place short range to ensure the shot pattern did not extend past the (small) plate. Immediately after the shot, you get on target completely unfazed. In the real world, you have a gun pointing at someone. A buckshot round would rip your hands, arms, body, stomach, whatever else was between you and that vest. If by a miracle your body armor absorbs every single shot (not that it really matters if you use common sense) you're dead the moment the next round comes.
                        Last edited by CJ; 01-26-2018, 05:21 PM.
                        "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
                        "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          ^^^^^ You are cherry picking your numbers. Do a spread sheet of commonly available commercial 38spl loads and show their average energy. I will save you the effort and tell you that it is about 270 with 330 being on the high end for commercial stuff loaded to post 1973 SAMI specs. Use load data from manuals from the 1960s and you will commonly see in the mid 450's with top loads.
                          Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
                            ^^^^^ You are cherry picking your numbers. Do a spread sheet of commonly available commercial 38spl loads and show their average energy. I will save you the effort and tell you that it is about 270 with 330 being on the high end for commercial stuff loaded to post 1973 SAMI specs. Use load data from manuals from the 1960s and you will commonly see in the mid 450's with top loads.
                            But but, my super high velocity hand loads...


                            Send your complaints to the U.S. Army field manual division.

                            I've lost interest in this stupid ass discussion. I understand the exhibition of googling numbers and physics and hunting elk, etc. in an attempt to prove a contrary point of view for the sport of it. The truth is both me and you know you're full of shit, which is why you would never put on that vest.
                            "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
                            "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by CJ View Post
                              You do realize armor that "prevents penetration," such as kevlar, will still make your stomach touch your spine when it absorbs that energy? You might also want to brush up your google physics, you're missing huge parts of the equation. If you want a fair comparison on Newtonian physics, fire the 12 gauge off in the palm of your hand. I'll also supply you with a 12 gauge shell and a chamber to do this as well.

                              I like your confidence, I'd also really like to see you put a vest on and show me who's boss. It sounds like you're going to brush it off like a hard rain.
                              A base ball thrown into your gut has more energy than most hand gun loads and it will not make your guts hit your spine. You are seriously over estimating how much energy a fired projectile has. Back face deformation with armor is of concern but it is not a serious issue with the most common threats you will face such as a hand gun and it is nothing to worry about once the shot string has had a chance to spread which takes about 4 yards with cheap buck loads.To put things into perspective a +P+ 9mm load has about as much kenitic energy as 3 apples dropped from 1 meter. I will gladly show up with a bolt action 12ga and will place the butt into my navel and fire off as many shots as you care to pay for. The force I will feel is exactly the same force I would feel if I placed a plate of steel over my stomach and fired the shot into it.

                              FYI : Unlike you I have actually shot a person before with a 12ga and have had the pleasure of being arested for it. I know what it will do on bare flesh and I know what it will do when it strikes a barrier. Seeing as how I do not carry a 32 at all for personal defense or a 38 with anything other than a top tier commercial load I would not pick a shot gun for personal defense if there was even the slightest chance that who ever was after me had a tiny bit of training and was serious about doing so.
                              Last edited by svauto-erotic855; 01-26-2018, 05:41 PM.
                              Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
                                I will gladly show up with a bolt action 12ga and will place the butt into my navel and fire off as many shots as you care to pay for. The force I will feel is exactly the same force I would feel if I placed a plate of steel over my stomach and fired the shot into it.
                                I propose a few small modifications to your experiment. Let's use a 1301, milspec 00 buck and place the recoil pad in your chest right over your heart. Now let's pull that trigger real fast and pop off 10-12 (long mag tube), so you can defibrillate and die like a dumbass. Then if you live, you can do it with a 38 spd and tell us how much more that hurt.....

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