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  • #31
    Originally posted by Magnus View Post
    It took me way to long to realize this wasn't about black Lives matter.
    same, sorry for trolling earlier.

    Comment


    • #32
      Posted by Stevil1300...



      For me, the recent incident at the Bundy Ranch is not about cattle. It is not about turtles. It isn’t about grazing fees or land access.

      It IS about preserving this Constitutional Republic that so many of us love.

      It IS about too much Federal Government.

      It IS about state’s rights.

      “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State.” James Madison


      It IS about the growing burden on taxpayers.

      It IS about no federal budget in 6 years.

      It IS about insane, out of control spending.

      It IS about $17.5 Trillion in debt

      It IS about $128 Trillion in unfunded liabilities

      It IS about the interest payment on our debt to China in 2014 will fully fund their entire military.

      “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” John Adams


      It IS about a representative government that reflects the will of the people.

      It IS about the Oath of Office taken by those that are chosen by the people to represent them:

      I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.


      It IS about 1500 page laws being passed in Congress without lawmakers reading what they are voting for.

      “It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is today, can guess what it will be tomorrow.” James Madison


      It IS about not providing adequate security to those deployed in harm's way and then pathologically lying about it.

      It IS about not putting the health and well being of those who fought for this nation at the top of our national priorities.

      “The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional to how they perceive veterans of early wars were treated and appreciated by our nation.” George Washington


      It IS about tyranny.

      It IS about countless laws against the 2nd Amendment.

      It IS about the federal government targeting opposing political views with the IRS.

      It IS about domestic spying.

      It IS about securing our borders.

      It IS about federal agencies and high ranking federal employees habitually lying to Congress and to the American People

      It IS about the Attorney General being held in Contempt of Congress

      It IS about the Senate Majority leader changing the rules of the Senate

      It IS about First Amendment “Areas”

      It IS about lobbyist and special interest money going to those in office.

      “The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.” James Madison


      It IS about 73 Armed Federal Agencies:

      U.S. Customs and Border Protection
      • Federal Bureau of Prisons
      • Federal Bureau of Investigation
      • U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement • U.S. Secret Service • Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts • Drug Enforcement Administration • U.S. Marshals Service • Veterans Health Administration • Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation • Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives • U.S. Postal Inspection Service • U.S. Capitol Police • National Park Service - Rangers • Bureau of Diplomatic Security • Pentagon Force Protection Agency • U.S. Forest Service • U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service • National Park Service - U.S. Park Police • National Nuclear Security Administration • U.S. Mint Police • Amtrak Police • Bureau of Indian Affairs • Bureau of Land Management • Bureau of Engraving and Printing • Environmental Protection Agency • Food and Drug Administration • National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration •Tennessee Valley Authority • Federal Reserve Board • U.S. Supreme Court • Bureau of Industry and Security • National Institutes of Health • Library of Congress • Federal Emergency Management Agency • National Aeronautics and Space Administration • Government Printing Office • National Institute of Standards & Technology • Smithsonian National Zoological Park • Bureau of Reclamation • Department of Health and Human Services • Department of Defense • Department of the Treasury, Tax Administration • Social Security Administration • Department of Housing and Urban Development • Department of Labor • Department of Homeland Security • Department of Veterans Affairs • Department of Justice • Department of Transportation • Department of Education • General Services Administration • Department of the Interior • National Aeronautics and Space Administration • Department of Energy • Environmental Protection Agency • Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation • Small Business Administration • Department of State • Office of Personnel Management • Department of the Treasury • Tennessee Valley Authority • Department of Commerce • U.S. Railroad Retirement Board • Agency for International Development • Nuclear Regulatory Commission • Corporation for National and Community Service • National Science Foundation • National Archives and Records Administration • Government Printing Office • Library of Congress

      Comment


      • #33
        “The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted.” James Madison


        It IS about spending.

        It IS about Taxpayer Funded Entitlement Programs (2012 Ranked from Highest to Lowest $):

        Medicaid
        Supplemental Nutrition Assistance
        Earned Income Tax Credit
        Supplemental Security Income
        Federal Pell Grants
        Temporary Assistance for Needy
        Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers
        Very Low to Moderate Income Housing Loans Title 1 Grants to Local Education Children’s Health Insurance National School Lunch Program Adjustable Rate Mortgages Maternal, Infant, and Early Childhood Home Visiting Program Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children Head Start Child Care and Development Block Low Income Home Energy Foster Care Public and Indian Housing State Administrative Matching Grants Child Care and Development School Breakfast Program Adoption Assistance Public Housing Capital Fund Social Services Block Grant Home Investment Partnership Universal Service Fund Impact Aid Supportive Housing Program Academic Competitive Grants Federal Work Study Program Rural Rental Assistance Payments Work Investment Act (WIA) Supplemental Education Opportunity Indian Housing Block Grants Community Services Block Grant Special Programs for the Aging Adult Education Grants to States Supportive Housing for the Elderly Maternal and Child Health Services Race to the Top Early Learning Shelter Plus Care Legal Services Corporation Migrant Education State Grant Promoting Safe and Stable Families Summer Food Service Program Special Programs for the Aging TRIO Upward Bound Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate TRIO Student Support Services Stephanie Tubbs Jones Child Welfare Weatherization Assistance for Low Income Emergency Food Assistance Program Emergency Food and Shelter Federal Aid to State Administrative Expenses for Child Nutrition Lower Income Housing Assistance Rehabilitation Commodity Supplemental Food Community Development Block College Access Challenge Grant Investing in Innovation Fund TRIO Talent Search
        Youthbuild100
        Demolition and Revitalization of Severely Distressed Public Housing WIC Grants to States Healthy Start Initiative Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations U.S. Refugee Admissions Program Appalachian Area Development Education for Homeless Children and Youth Indian Social Services Welfare Projects for Assistance in the Transition from Homelessness Farm Labor Housing Loans Indian Community Development Indian and Native American Training Very Low Income Housing Repair Prevention and Intervention Programs for Children and Youths Who Are Neglected, Delinquent, or at Risk Section 4 Capacity Building for Community Development and Affordable Housing High School Graduation Initiative TRIO Educational Opportunity WIA Pilots, Demonstrations and Research Projects TRIO McNair Post-Baccalaureate Indian Health Services (Urban ) Adoption Incentive Payments Transitional Living for Homeless Youth Rural Self Help Housing Technical Assistance Graduate Assistance in Areas of National Need Section 538 Rural Rental Housing Guaranteed Housing Self-Help Ownership Opportunity Assets for Independence Demonstration Program Services to Indian Children, Elderly and Families Special Programs for the Aging Health Promotion Services Senior Farmers Market Nutrition Migrant Education- High School Equivalency WIC Farmers Market Nutrition Outreach and Assistance for Socially Disadvantaged Farmers and Ranchers Rural Rental Housing Loans Migrant Education, College Assistance Child Care Access Means Parents in School Rural Development Multi-Family Housing Revitalization Development Rent Supplements: Rental Housing for Lower Income Families Indian Child Welfare Act Title II Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Outreach Special Milk Program for Children Rural Housing Site Loans and Self-Help Housing Land Development Low Income Taxpayer Clinics Rural Housing Preservation Grants Drug Free Communities Support Cuban and Haitian Entrant Program Community Development Block Grants Emergency Capital Repair Grants for Multifamily Housing Projects for Multifamily Housing Projects Community Food Projects Community Outreach and Assistance Partnership Training TRIO Staff Training Program Migrant Education-Coordination Consolidated Health Centers Title V Delinquency Prevention Job Opportunities for Low Income Healthy Urban Food Enterprise Development Center

        “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” Benjamin Franklin


        From an article by Jonathan Turley, Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and has testified before Congress on the dangerous expansion of presidential powers.

        In the summer of 1787, a crowd gathered around Independence Hall to learn what type of government their representatives had formed for the new nation. When Benjamin Franklin walked out of the Constitutional Convention, Mrs. Powel could wait no longer. Franklin was one of the best known of the “Framers” working on the new US Constitution. Powel ran up to Franklin and asked, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” Franklin turned to her and said what are perhaps the most chilling words uttered by any Framer.

        He said, “A republic, Madam, if you can keep it.”

        Franklin’s words were more than a boast. They were a warning. The curious thing about a democratic system is that it contains the seeds of its own demise. Freedom is not something guaranteed by any parchment or promise. It is earned by each generation which must jealously protect it from threats, not only from outside, but from within a nation.

        Comment


        • #34
          As a land owner that borders a wildlife refuge. You don't fight them you work with them. We have to pay to graze on federal ground. You can't just go driving around either. Permits have to be issue on a daily basis if needed. Most use horses to get around that.

          It's a ordeal but its worth it.

          Edit

          You can't build a business around it always being there. Some years they don't allow it. Hell in the 33 years of my life its changed a ton. Use to be able to hunt,camp fish year round. No camping at all now, fishing is allowed certain parts of the year in certain areas only now. Hunting is a draw system.

          Comment


          • #35
            SBFordtech, that is all well and good to complain about, but when it comes to the complaints these ranchers talk about in public against the BLM, 90% of it seems to revolve around permits and grazing rights on public land.
            I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


            Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

            Comment


            • #36
              Also I would like to point out all the other ranchers who graze public land, interact with the BLM, and seem to have no (or minor) issues.
              I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


              Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

              Comment


              • #37

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by LANTIRN View Post
                  Also I would like to point out all the other ranchers who graze public land, interact with the BLM, and seem to have no (or minor) issues.
                  Well if everyone drops out of the workforce unemployment goes down too.....

                  By the same token, how many people living in the country have just given up and sold their land for whatever the offer was being made by the feds? Most.

                  I'm sure many more have issues, but just do not come forward. Honestly, these fees are just taxes, and the desperation of our government to bang a cash register at any and all excuses is just dumbfounding this day and age.

                  It's no wonder they want a "transaction" tax. They want every penny everyone makes including ranchers that barely eek out a living as is.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Steven and Dwight Hammond, the Oregon ranchers whose sentencing on arson charges spurred a militant group's takeover of a federal building, turned themselves in to authorities on Monday evening, CNN reported.The duo's attorney, W. Alan Schroeder, had stated to Harvey County Sheriff David Ward that t...


                    SURRENDER

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by LANTIRN View Post
                      Also I would like to point out all the other ranchers who graze public land, interact with the BLM, and seem to have no (or minor) issues.
                      At least until the govt comes knocking on their door because they've decided they want their private property.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        As armed protesters occupied buildings on a federal wildlife preserve in Oregon Monday, the father and son whose cause they claimed to embrace turned themselves in to police in California.

                        On Sunday, Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son, Steve, 46, embarked on their road trip across their home state, took a flight to Los Angeles and then traveled some 25 miles south to Terminal Island Federal Correctional Institution, in San Pedro, Calif., where they will finish their prison sentences.


                        “I wouldn’t say I was grateful. But maybe there is the capability of doing some kind of change that might make life worth living for us again.”

                        - Suzie Hammond

                        The Hammond family has “run out of hope” that the siege by self-professed patriots some 70 miles from their home in rural Oregon will change things.

                        “Our government is so broken,” family matriarch Suzie Hammond told FoxNews.com of their ongoing legal battle. “We can’t keep fighting the government – for decades this fight has disrupted our lives, our ranch operation.”

                        While deeply upset over their situation, Suzie Hammond stopped short of supporting the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, south of Burns. More than 100 protesters moved into the site on Saturday after participating in a peaceful rally in Burns on behalf of the Hammonds.

                        Suzie Hammond, reached at her home in the Oregon wilderness, said her family had no role in the planning or execution of the standoff and said she has no intention of visiting. The standoff is being led by Ammon Bundy – whom the Hammonds have met previously – and his brother Ryan Bundy, sons of rancher Cliven Bundy who had his own armed standoff with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) in Nevada in 2014.

                        “I wouldn’t say I was grateful,” Hammond said when asked about the protesters’ bid to draw attention to their plight. “But maybe there is the capability of doing some kind of change that might make life worth living for us again. Soon, there will be no ranchers left.”

                        A longtime friend and neighbor of the Hammonds, Ruth Danielsen, told FoxNews.com that the Bundy brothers didn’t want the Hammonds to turn themselves in. But Danielson said the father-son rancher duo is hardly the image of angry domestic terrorists, despite being charged under such laws.

                        “They are the nicest humans you would ever want to meet, very polite, salt-of-the-earth types,” Danielsen said. “They are always giving hay away to other ranchers who need it and donating money to local schools and charities, really nice people. Not the people the government should be going after.”

                        A legal team for the Hammonds insisted in a statement released Monday that Dwight and Steve “respect the rule of law.”

                        “They have litigated this matter within the federal courts for over five years and, in every instance, have followed the order of the court without incident or violation. That includes serving the entire sentences imposed in this case by the judge who heard the evidence at trial and who concluded that imposition of a five-year sentence under these circumstances would ‘shock the conscience,’” read the statement.

                        The legal team plans to seek executive clemency from the Obama administration.

                        For the Hammonds, clashes with federal authorities in courtrooms and in the wild over farming and property rights are all too familiar. In the early 1970s, Dwight Hammond sued the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for water rights to fill his reservoir and won. In 1994, the agency tried to fence off a cattle trail that Hammond used that traversed federal land. Once again, Hammond sued and won.

                        “Then the BLM began secretly gathering ‘stuff’ against the Hammonds accusing them of arson, conspiracy, flying in restricted airspace, etc.,” Danielsen said.

                        According to an NPR report, Dwight Hammond was alleged to have made death threats against federal officials. In 2010 a federal grand jury indicted Dwight and his son Steve on 19 counts, including conspiracy to commit arson, for multiple wildfires in the Steens Mountain area. These charges of arson went all the way back to the early 80s – a span of over 25 years.

                        “If it was arson, why did they wait?” Danielsen noted.

                        In 2011 a new federal prosecutor was named and 10 of the original 19 count indictments were dropped, leaving nine counts spanning 15 years. The BLM and federal prosecutor decided to charge the Hammonds with an arson charge connected with the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. A jury found Dwight Hammond guilty of one of the nine counts, and Steve Hammond guilty of two of the nine counts -- the two fires the Hammonds admitted to starting.

                        One was a prescribed burn on Hammond property that got away from them and burned 139 acres of adjacent BLM land. The other was in response to a lightning-caused fire, what is known as a "back burn," which was started on Hammond property and burned an acre of BLM land. At the time, the Hammonds claimed the fires were lit to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires, but prosecutors argued it was to cover-up poaching.

                        “Neither of these fires would be considered ‘terrorism arson’ or even arson by a reasonable human. In fact they are standard range land management practices,” Danielsen argued.

                        But based on the Antiterrorism Act, Congress set the minimum sentence for a fire on federal property at five to 20 years. The prosecutor requested five years for each count, but a federal judge called the penalty “grossly disproportionate to the crimes” and used the Eighth Amendment as justification for the lighter sentence. Dwight Hammond served three months in prison and Steve Hammond served one year.

                        On appeal by the government, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals overruled the lower court, saying there was no discretion to lessen the sentences.

                        The BLM denied all of the Hammonds' grazing permits in 2014, using the justification that arsonists are not good stewards of the land, and lawyers for the family stated that they continue to fight for the permits to be issued.

                        To ranchers in the West, the dispute is just the latest in a long line of cases in which they allege the government has used its control over grazing and right-of-way permits to undermine their way of life.

                        The animosity has increased as the federal government buys up more and more land in western states. In the dangerously dry sector of eastern Oregon where the Hammonds purchased their property more than 50 years ago, some counties are up to 90 percent federally owned, leaving ranchers reliant on government grazing leases for their livelihoods. In the 1970s, ranchers in the region instigated the “Sagebrush Rebellion” in an effort to ascertain public land, but the government continues to prevail.

                        The FBI has called for a “peaceful resolution” to end the siege at the national wildlife refuge, but over the weekend the Bundy brothers vowed to continue their stand as pickup trucks blocked the building entrance and protesters stood in their camouflage attire and winter clothing.

                        “The end goal here is that we are here to restore the rights to the people here so that they can use the land and resources,” Ryan Bundy said, while Ammon Bundy cautioned that if the government opted for more violent measures to end the standoff they would be “putting their lives at risk.”

                        The BLM did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but on its Facebook page stated that the offices in Oregon are “closed until further notice.”

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I'm not saying that violence is the answer, far from it.

                          But one of these days sooner rather than later the federal bean counters are going to screw with some folks who have nothing to left to lose.

                          And at the end of the day even "a pen and a phone" won't help....

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gargamel View Post
                            I'm not saying that violence is the answer, far from it.

                            But one of these days sooner rather than later the federal bean counters are going to screw with some folks who have nothing to left to lose.

                            And at the end of the day even "a pen and a phone" won't help....
                            There are alot of people who are already a few eggs short of a dozen who just haven't been poked. Add to that anyone terminally ill that might just say "fuck it" if pushed and it could get ugly. Luckily alot of people aren't too aware of anything other than football and the kardashians which is why I think more stuff like this doesn't happen. The amount of people who are "a bit off" is pretty high in this country so I would think statistically we would see more "don't give a fuck" moments with the feds if people were passionate about shit that mattered. Just me thinking out loud though. Luckily most who give a shit are more prone to think things through, but people are getting pissed and restless more and more it seems.
                            I don't like Republicans, but I really FUCKING hate Democrats.


                            Sex with an Asian woman is great, but 30 minutes later you're horny again.

                            Comment


                            • #44


                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by LANTIRN View Post
                                There are alot of people who are already a few eggs short of a dozen who just haven't been poked. Add to that anyone terminally ill that might just say "fuck it" if pushed and it could get ugly. Luckily alot of people aren't too aware of anything other than football and the kardashians which is why I think more stuff like this doesn't happen. The amount of people who are "a bit off" is pretty high in this country so I would think statistically we would see more "don't give a fuck" moments with the feds if people were passionate about shit that mattered. Just me thinking out loud though. Luckily most who give a shit are more prone to think things through, but people are getting pissed and restless more and more it seems.
                                That's a good way to sum it up. People can only be pushed so far before they lose faith in the legal system and start to feel that a gun is the only answer. That is exactly what is going on here. The people in govt know it too. Perhaps that is why they are being careful with it and haven't tried anything overbearing. If it wasn't such a public issue, which might expose their system of how they have been trying to steel the ranchers' land and livelyhood, I wonder if they would handle it differently.

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