Union kills the Twinkie

[Forever_frost]

And what you're saying is...union employees do their job and don't need oversight? Because I'm pretty sure most companies that are non union don't have a 1 to 1 ratio on manager to employee and they seem to do fairly well.

[War Machine]

oh good.

if anyone wants to know where to make $30-50/hr let me know

Does it involve a train?

[talisman]

It's hard to have a decent conversation on this forum when you have people that will make claims and when you post a rebuttal to those claims they just spew the same non sense. Oh your a union member you don't know shit about unions my daddies' cousin's best friend that got his tire slashed 40 years ago told me all I need to know about unions.


With that said I'm willing to have that converstion with you and will answer any questions you have. Granted no two companys and no two unions are alike, but I have experience with 3 different unions that I've worked under and I can answer any question based on my experience. I'm not going to get into the bakers union, UAW, garbage mans union ect ect...

I know it might blow alot of folks mind on this site, but have you ever thought for one second that an industry or a company might prefer to use a union because it will save them money. pause.......while Frost just blew his top....... In my industry the union polices themselves and this saves the company an untold amount of money. I know most folks want to believe that for every union worker they need one manager standing over him to wake him up and make sure he does his job. This is a joke in my industry. At my location there are 150 to 175 employees for every manager. If you count the actual amount of managers that even have a clue to what is going on that number doubles to 300 employees per manager. This is no joke. 75% of managers don't know how to do my job and can't do it. The place runs it's self. The only time you see a manager is if something really gets screwed up. We are totally left to ourselves and can you imagine the work gets done in a timely manner. We have our ways of keeping members in line and this is benefical to everyone. We don't want managers breathing down our backs, and the company sure as hell doesn't want to hire more manangers. Since we are in the trenches the company leaves alot of stuff up to us. Like safety which is huge. The union is in charge of this and takes stuff very serious. If you are deemed unsafe by your coworkers you won't have a job. Period end of story. The union will not back you.

Another way the union saves the company money is from an accounting stand point. How long would it take those managers to sit down and have employee reviews and determine how much each person should get paid or how big of a raise or bonus they should get. At the same time keeping everything fair and morale high. Seems if you have thousands of people doing the same job wouldn't it be easier to sit down with a handful of them and hash out pay and benefits for everyone. On top of that the union administers the healthcare, pension, seniority,vacations, ect ect... thus saving the company money and resources.

Also when you're dealing with millions of dollars in equipment, freight, hazmat,public safety, and countless government agencys up your ass you want a qualified work force. Not to mention the billions in liability the company faces each day if someone screws up. Contrary to what you hear on Dfwmustangs you don't learn this shit over night and it takes years for an employee to grasp and understand what is happening around them. With all the rules and regulations we have to know and follow the company wants a seasoned work force. The union structure provides this. How many people now days will stay at a company for 5,10,or 20 years? Very few. The railroad needs people to stay a lifetime and the union provides this. I get the pleasure of working with guys who have been on the job 30,40,and even 50 years. They've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know. The railroad has done studies and they claim it takes an employee at least 7 years to learn the job to where they are no longer a liability and actually start making the company money. With out the union stability employees would come and go. The decent pay, good benefits, and awesome retirement that is provide by the company and union is what keeps people around.

It's a marriage. It's not always a happy one but we make things work and both sides have to give and take. It's worked for the past 150 years and will continue to work. I'm sure we will have the shit talkers spew their garbage all over the place so if you want to take it to Pms that's fine by me.

Wow. Your lack of real world experience is staggering.

[4eyedwillie]

FT you haven't realized by now that it's pointless to have a discussion with any of these dumbfucks? They have made up their minds about EVERYTHING and no one is going to change it. You posted a pretty good description of your experience and od how things are supposed to work in the ADULT world and since it contradicts their preconceptions the first response is you don't have any experience. From a guy who runs a auto parts store whoo hoo.

[talisman]

Isn't it incredible how dumbasses flock to defend each other? They must give off a special pheromone when they are in trouble.

[CJ]

It's hard to have a decent conversation on this forum when you have people that will make claims and when you post a rebuttal to those claims they just spew the same non sense. Oh your a union member you don't know shit about unions my daddies' cousin's best friend that got his tire slashed 40 years ago told me all I need to know about unions.


With that said I'm willing to have that converstion with you and will answer any questions you have. Granted no two companys and no two unions are alike, but I have experience with 3 different unions that I've worked under and I can answer any question based on my experience. I'm not going to get into the bakers union, UAW, garbage mans union ect ect...

I know it might blow alot of folks mind on this site, but have you ever thought for one second that an industry or a company might prefer to use a union because it will save them money. pause.......while Frost just blew his top....... In my industry the union polices themselves and this saves the company an untold amount of money. I know most folks want to believe that for every union worker they need one manager standing over him to wake him up and make sure he does his job. This is a joke in my industry. At my location there are 150 to 175 employees for every manager. If you count the actual amount of managers that even have a clue to what is going on that number doubles to 300 employees per manager. This is no joke. 75% of managers don't know how to do my job and can't do it. The place runs it's self. The only time you see a manager is if something really gets screwed up. We are totally left to ourselves and can you imagine the work gets done in a timely manner. We have our ways of keeping members in line and this is benefical to everyone. We don't want managers breathing down our backs, and the company sure as hell doesn't want to hire more manangers. Since we are in the trenches the company leaves alot of stuff up to us. Like safety which is huge. The union is in charge of this and takes stuff very serious. If you are deemed unsafe by your coworkers you won't have a job. Period end of story. The union will not back you.

Another way the union saves the company money is from an accounting stand point. How long would it take those managers to sit down and have employee reviews and determine how much each person should get paid or how big of a raise or bonus they should get. At the same time keeping everything fair and morale high. Seems if you have thousands of people doing the same job wouldn't it be easier to sit down with a handful of them and hash out pay and benefits for everyone. On top of that the union administers the healthcare, pension, seniority,vacations, ect ect... thus saving the company money and resources.

Also when you're dealing with millions of dollars in equipment, freight, hazmat,public safety, and countless government agencys up your ass you want a qualified work force. Not to mention the billions in liability the company faces each day if someone screws up. Contrary to what you hear on Dfwmustangs you don't learn this shit over night and it takes years for an employee to grasp and understand what is happening around them. With all the rules and regulations we have to know and follow the company wants a seasoned work force. The union structure provides this. How many people now days will stay at a company for 5,10,or 20 years? Very few. The railroad needs people to stay a lifetime and the union provides this. I get the pleasure of working with guys who have been on the job 30,40,and even 50 years. They've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know. The railroad has done studies and they claim it takes an employee at least 7 years to learn the job to where they are no longer a liability and actually start making the company money. With out the union stability employees would come and go. The decent pay, good benefits, and awesome retirement that is provide by the company and union is what keeps people around.

It's a marriage. It's not always a happy one but we make things work and both sides have to give and take. It's worked for the past 150 years and will continue to work. I'm sure we will have the shit talkers spew their garbage all over the place so if you want to take it to Pms that's fine by me.

You will never find a single reputable study that shows unions are cheaper than non-union companies. You're living in a fantasy land. And I challenge you to find one. Maybe it will be moment of clarity for you. The only time a union is formed is when they want to force the free market to absorb something it naturally would not do, that is the whole point of a union. If employees were thinking in the best interests of the employer they would not have to band together to protect each other, that's the reality of it. You operate off of a misconception and you live this lie, it's all you know. You've been in a union so long you just don't understand anymore, you think you can apply this to everyone there is, you don't see the big picture. I've spent the time quoting economics principals, free market capitalism, and other fact based standards. You quote what your union friends say. Don't you think that's a problem?

[The King]

FT you haven't realized by now that it's pointless to have a discussion with any of these dumbfucks? They have made up their minds about EVERYTHING and no one is going to change it. You posted a pretty good description of your experience and od how things are supposed to work in the ADULT world and since it contradicts their preconceptions the first response is you don't have any experience. From a guy who runs a auto parts store whoo hoo.

You calling anyone else on this forum a dumbfuck is hilarious.

[CJ]

FT you haven't realized by now that it's pointless to have a discussion with any of these dumbfucks? They have made up their minds about EVERYTHING and no one is going to change it. You posted a pretty good description of your experience and od how things are supposed to work in the ADULT world and since it contradicts their preconceptions the first response is you don't have any experience. From a guy who runs a auto parts store whoo hoo.

Considering his experience is being in a union, how the hell is he suppose to remain impartial and see how destructive they are? I'm going to continue to use factual economic principals, not what my union buddies say. What you are advocating by comparison is I can't comment on justice because I haven't gone to prison.

[DON SVO]

It's hard to have a decent conversation .......... you want to take it to Pms that's fine by me.

Unionized companies can do well until drastic changes in their particular field are necessary. What you're glossing over is that Hostess was and still is recoiling from a sudden about-face transition in it's consumer base. They needed to liquidate between 10-15% of their labor force. The unions would not allow it. They all met in the middle the first go-round with pay cuts. The second time the bakers wouldn't go back to work after an extended strike. Hostess is a prime example of how highly tenured unionized employees can destroy a company.

Where you seem to fail at gluing the pieces together is that you go off on a massive rant about how YOUR union workplace thrives and how Hostess failed (miserably). We still need trains and transport. We (as a consumer base) told Hostess we didn't care for their shitty HFCS-laden treats. Hostess' unions would not allow the restructuring execs to do what was needed.

FT you haven't realized by now that it's pointless to have a discussion with any of these dumbfucks? They have made up their minds about EVERYTHING and no one is going to change it. You posted a pretty good description of your experience and od how things are supposed to work in the ADULT world and since it contradicts their preconceptions the first response is you don't have any experience. From a guy who runs a auto parts store whoo hoo.

He said we didn't have any experience and blamed the executives salary and mismanagement. I have asked repeatedly... how has their salary affected Hostess' employees? He hasn't responded (more than likely because he knows the answer and it doesn't help his flawed opinion of Hostess' demise).

[bcoop]

LOL @ Unions saving money. Unions in my industry have caused price increases, in some cases twice a year, every year since 2008. Even though, for the most part, raw material costs are down. That's why every union plant we represent is being shut the fuck down, and moved. Companies are tired of being held hostage. They are tired of prices being driven up so much due to union labor, that they can no longer compete price wise, with non union manufacturers.

[4eyedwillie]

Isn't it incredible how dumbasses flock to defend each other? They must give off a special pheromone when they are in trouble.

I'm starting to wonder if Oreilly's people aren't every bit as stupid as vatozone's people.......Maybe I do need to change who I buy parts from.

[4eyedwillie]

You calling anyone else on this forum a dumbfuck is hilarious.

You would know.....

[BMCSean]

I'm sure the railroad union is amazing, but every union body I have been forced to hire for a job was the laziest piece of shit.

[talisman]

I'm starting to wonder if Oreilly's people aren't every bit as stupid as vatozone's people.......Maybe I do need to change who I buy parts from.

Nice thinly veiled threat. Are your employees union? Would you encourage them to form one since FT asserts it would make your job easier?

[4eyedwillie]

Considering his experience is being in a union, how the hell is he suppose to remain impartial and see how destructive they are? I'm going to continue to use factual economic principals, not what my union buddies say. What you are advocating by comparison is I can't comment on justice because I haven't gone to prison.

You think because your in a union that you can't see both sides? I could when I was in a union. I took as 33% pay cut (and I did vote in favor of it) where I last worked union to help the company be more competitive. If I couldn't see both sides would I have voted for it? Then what happened? Less than a year later the execs took a big bonus and management got decent raises. We had to go another 5 years before we got another contract with a 3% pay raise.
It has been stated before the 8% pay cuts at hostess were insignificant to the company and the total of all the cuts equaled about 500k. When you're paying millions in bonuses and pay raises to execs. IF everyone in the company had been taking paycuts and no bonus's the result would have been different. Personally I would have went to work but looked for another job full time also. I can understand the fuck it why help them get more bonus's attitude tho.