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Old 07-18-2015, 06:19 AM   #421
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:11 AM   #422
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I thought that I would bring up an old thread to show the progress EVs have made in the last few years.

In 2017 about 86,500,000 new vehicles powered by an ICE of some sort were sold worldwide. About 312,000 EVs were sold in the same time frame.

Tesla is losing about 3,500,000,000 dollars per year, its stock price has been in free fall lately, and its front man is losing his mind.

Since this thread started there has basically been ZERO increase in market share for new EVs, there have been no tech breakthroughs to improve anything, and instead of becoming a large portion of the cars on the road they have just become status symbols for the wealthy who want to virtue signal. Even the Greens are starting to see that the claims made about EVs being the path to save the planet by being zero emissions was a hoax from the get go.
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:31 AM   #423
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It’s hard to run a failing business without taxpayer funded government subsidies.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:23 AM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svauto-erotic855 View Post
I thought that I would bring up an old thread to show the progress EVs have made in the last few years.

In 2017 about 86,500,000 new vehicles powered by an ICE of some sort were sold worldwide. About 312,000 EVs were sold in the same time frame.

Tesla is losing about 3,500,000,000 dollars per year, its stock price has been in free fall lately, and its front man is losing his mind.

Since this thread started there has basically been ZERO increase in market share for new EVs, there have been no tech breakthroughs to improve anything, and instead of becoming a large portion of the cars on the road they have just become status symbols for the wealthy who want to virtue signal. Even the Greens are starting to see that the claims made about EVs being the path to save the planet by being zero emissions was a hoax from the get go.


I have nothing against Tesla, and EVs will keep coming, but I don't think people really get the reality of it all. EVs are not going to take over the world anytime soon.

I was in Detroit with one of the Big 3 last week and I was told, nearly verbatim,
"There's what we say publicly about EV, and then there's what we work on in here... and there's definitely difference between those."

And then there's this from earlier this week:

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BMW board member Klaus Frölich recently expressed his reservations about the costs of batteries in electric cars. In a recent statement, the 58-year-old senior BMW executive noted that electric vehicles would “never” be less costly than cars powered by fossil fuels.

“It’s very simple. You can produce whole cars, only with the cost of the battery,” he said.

“When everybody wants to have cobalt, the prices of cobalt will not go down, they will go up. So, it’s a nightmare that an electrified vehicle will cost the same as a combustion-engined car,”

Frölich notes that his “very optimistic scenario” assumes 15% of BMW’s cars going all-electric by 2030. In turn, he sees another 15% as plug-in hybrids — complete with combustion engines which, of course, still require fossil fuels. Therefore, he says, “I have 85 per cent in my portfolio in 2030 with a combustion engine.”

“I think the discussion about electro-mobility is a little bit irrational… the world – Russia, Australia, a large portion of the world – they will have combustion engines for a very long time.”

When the conversation turned to diesel, Frölich explains, “every politician sees only one solution – diesel bashing.” In contrast, Frölich claims he’s “very optimistic” about the future of diesel engines. He adds, “From a CO2 and customer perspective, a modern diesel is a very good solution… We have, I think, more or less the best diesels.”
More here on battery pricing, cobalt, Tesla's plan to go cobalt-free, etc
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:45 PM   #425
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https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...arSJILPGgdjBt0

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The car dealership lobby has argued that franchised dealerships benefit consumers when it comes to service repairs and the costs of purchasing vehicles.
I would like to find the person(s) who said that and piss into their mouth.
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:58 PM   #426
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https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...arSJILPGgdjBt0



I would like to find the person(s) who said that and piss into their mouth.
That’s too nice for these sorts of swine. Do you realize it was the car dealer lobby that is working hard to impose legislation so you can no longer build your own kit cars?
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:37 AM   #427
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That’s too nice for these sorts of swine. Do you realize it was the car dealer lobby that is working hard to impose legislation so you can no longer build your own kit cars?
Some of those kits have actually come a long way, and given time, its not really a stretch to say they'd eventually be on par with a half decent ride from the stealership. In many cases better, given some of the trash they'll sell you. You can see a day when some people might just order a $10k kit instead of going and getting a $25k car. I'm sure that's what they're afraid of. Like you guys I'd like to see stealerships die a horrible death, but what would replace them? Buying direct from Ford? I can see where that could end up being just as bad. Maybe someone here knows how that would play out.

Afterthought related to thread title:

Didn't Texas also totally fuck itself when it came to Amazon? I seem to remember them wanting to put some giant distribution center here that would have netted the state some nice revenue. So Texas decided to just fire a shotgun at its own foot, and told them that before they could do that, they had to pay the state 400 million dollars or some such, in sales tax from previous sales. Amazon of course said no thanks. So greedy texas got neither the undeserved tax money, nor the boon of having Amazon build here. Instead amazon went and built in... was it Wisconsin? Can't remember. Somewhere else where the state realized a golden opportunity and weren't fucking retards.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:38 AM   #428
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The Amazon story is ancient history. They have six or so million square feet buildings here in Dallas with at least one more under construction. They have six to eight million square foot distribution centers in every major market in the country and many more smaller buildings.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:58 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by jw33 View Post
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...arSJILPGgdjBt0



I would like to find the person(s) who said that and piss into their mouth.
Dealerships have their place. Test drives, and buying on car on the same day that you want it are two of the biggest advantages. If I had to wait to get my new car, I would likely go slightly used, or get cold feet entirely.

Another advantage is that new car dealerships are guaranteed sales for the manufacturer, if they lose volume, then the price is going to go up. Besides, how many times have you known for a company to pass on savings to the consumer?

The biggest damned problem is that the law allows too many shady practices for the dealers. The one that irritates me the most is the advertised price including every possible conditional rebate, so it's advertised at $36k, but unless you're a student, fireman, policeman, military, farmer with a rival brand to trade in, the actual price is $45k, not including our $1500 dealer accessory package, $300 document fee, $400 destination charge, and 6.25% sales tax. Then your finance charge and extended warranty brings the grand total to $62K.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:16 AM   #430
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Dealerships have their place. Test drives, and buying on car on the same day that you want it are two of the biggest advantages. If I had to wait to get my new car, I would likely go slightly used, or get cold feet entirely.

Another advantage is that new car dealerships are guaranteed sales for the manufacturer, if they lose volume, then the price is going to go up. Besides, how many times have you known for a company to pass on savings to the consumer?

The biggest damned problem is that the law allows too many shady practices for the dealers. The one that irritates me the most is the advertised price including every possible conditional rebate, so it's advertised at $36k, but unless you're a student, fireman, policeman, military, farmer with a rival brand to trade in, the actual price is $45k, not including our $1500 dealer accessory package, $300 document fee, $400 destination charge, and 6.25% sales tax. Then your finance charge and extended warranty brings the grand total to $62K.
I got in a shouting match with the "sales manager" at grand prairie Ford over this bull shit. It was $1800 for nitrogen filled tires, tint, and a "curb rash" warranty. I told him I wasn't paying for any of that shit because I already confirmed the price via phone. He threw a fit and asked what he was supposed to do about the tint that was already on the car. I told him I didn't give a fuck but I'm not paying for it. I left with the car for the previous agreed upon price, but I'll never go back to that dealer again.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:14 PM   #431
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I got in a shouting match with the "sales manager" at grand prairie Ford over this bull shit. It was $1800 for nitrogen filled tires, tint, and a "curb rash" warranty. I told him I wasn't paying for any of that shit because I already confirmed the price via phone. He threw a fit and asked what he was supposed to do about the tint that was already on the car. I told him I didn't give a fuck but I'm not paying for it. I left with the car for the previous agreed upon price, but I'll never go back to that dealer again.
They have all gotten like that, I could have bought my newest vehicle at Ennis Ford for $1k more than at the stealership in McKinney, but the one here had tint, nitrogen, small dent removal or some shit for $1k less than in Ennis.
So I could drive an hour away with no tint, etc, but pay more or buy 10 mins away for $1k less with shit I didn't need.
I didn't even argue with those clowns in McKinney, I got $5k off MSRP and 0% for 72 months, I'm good with that...
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:26 PM   #432
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They have all gotten like that, I could have bought my newest vehicle at Ennis Ford for $1k more than at the stealership in McKinney, but the one here had tint, nitrogen, small dent removal or some shit for $1k less than in Ennis.
So I could drive an hour away with no tint, etc, but pay more or buy 10 mins away for $1k less with shit I didn't need.
I didn't even argue with those clowns in McKinney, I got $5k off MSRP and 0% for 72 months, I'm good with that...
I walked on autonation, went home, did some homework, and found we get x plan price, and applied with FMC for 0%. The sales manager called me and asked to try to make it right, and I let them do what they could. It still sucked, but my wife got the car she wanted.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:03 PM   #433
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That $1500 BS for $250 worth of window tinting is the biggest crock of crap ever. Scrape it off or take $250. Your f’n choice. You can take the nitrogen out too and fill the damn tires with air too. I’m not going 200mph, and they do that on air all the time too.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:17 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Baron Von Crowder View Post
I walked on autonation, went home, did some homework, and found we get x plan price, and applied with FMC for 0%. The sales manager called me and asked to try to make it right, and I let them do what they could. It still sucked, but my wife got the car she wanted.
I know the feeling. I looked hard and long for the car, color I wanted that's what sucked for me since I wanted the incentives and 0% it had to be an '18. I finally found what I wanted, but the entire process sucked out loud. I hadn't bought a new car since 7-2011 and its good to know that shit is still the same if not worse...
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Look all you want, she can't find anyone else who treats her as bad as I do, and I keep her self esteem so low, she wouldn't think twice about going anywhere else.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:22 PM   #435
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If car dealers are such magical places for the consumer to shop then they have nothing to worry about if another manufacture wants to be able to offer their product without.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:47 PM   #436
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I got in a shouting match with the "sales manager" at grand prairie Ford over this bull shit. It was $1800 for nitrogen filled tires, tint, and a "curb rash" warranty. I told him I wasn't paying for any of that shit because I already confirmed the price via phone. He threw a fit and asked what he was supposed to do about the tint that was already on the car. I told him I didn't give a fuck but I'm not paying for it. I left with the car for the previous agreed upon price, but I'll never go back to that dealer again.
The only time I went there was in 2006 to take delivery on a new Ranger that I bought online. No BS shenanigans went on, other than the usual finance officer offerings of maintenance packages which were not pushed overly hard.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:22 PM   #437
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We just got a Carvana vending machine here. I'm really interested in trying it the next time I get another car. I deal with sales people all day long at work, i don't want to deal with another one buying a car.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:53 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by Craizie View Post
I got in a shouting match with the "sales manager" at grand prairie Ford over this bull shit. It was $1800 for nitrogen filled tires, tint, and a "curb rash" warranty. I told him I wasn't paying for any of that shit because I already confirmed the price via phone. He threw a fit and asked what he was supposed to do about the tint that was already on the car. I told him I didn't give a fuck but I'm not paying for it. I left with the car for the previous agreed upon price, but I'll never go back to that dealer again.
Same thing at Dallas Dodge. I even agreed to their asking price, it was decent. Went to pick it up "$1,600 Certified Pre-Owned Fee". We slugged it out. They offered to take off half and asked me to negotiate. I told them I already negotiated by not walking out immediately. Fucking faggots.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:48 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by Craizie View Post
I got in a shouting match with the "sales manager" at grand prairie Ford over this bull shit. It was $1800 for nitrogen filled tires, tint, and a "curb rash" warranty. I told him I wasn't paying for any of that shit because I already confirmed the price via phone. He threw a fit and asked what he was supposed to do about the tint that was already on the car. I told him I didn't give a fuck but I'm not paying for it. I left with the car for the previous agreed upon price, but I'll never go back to that dealer again.

Town East Ford lost a sale to my mom due to that bullshit. They absolutely refused to take that crap off, and got downright mad when she said that she wasn't paying for add ons that she didn't ask for.

Don Davis Ford on the other hand got her business, because they had the dent protection and nitrogen filled tires for $3k cheaper that Town East.

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Originally Posted by jw33 View Post
If car dealers are such magical places for the consumer to shop then they have nothing to worry about if another manufacture wants to be able to offer their product without.
The state isn't going to let them, far too much money from car dealers. The state loves their fees, and VIT taxes, which they won't get from a company that doesn't have inventory.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:55 PM   #440
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I wonder what the carvana return policy is personally because I just had one come into the shop yesterday and it wasnt pretty. It was a 2018 with 26k on it leaking antifreeze from the radiator and had a sealer put in it. The customer bought the car 12 days ago so i doubt they did it because the warranty company they have covers bumper to bumper for 30 days regardless of anything. I could tell someone had been in there before me because of wear on the core support and bolts that didnt quite line up right. So im definitely not trusting that company from what I saw but maybe it was a one off as it is the only one Ive seen so far.
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