Church shooting - White Settlement

[SS Junk]

Do I practice running to a location, drawing, and firing? no...

Then what say do you have looking at this on monday morning from your couch? Merely repeatedly drawing from your holster in the comfort of your surroundings doesn't really qualify you in claiming the rights/wrongs/should've/could've of how to handle this situation. I'm sure you already know that once you have a shotgun pointed at you your fine motor skills go out the window.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Then what say do you have looking at this on monday morning from your couch? Merely repeatedly drawing from your holster in the comfort of your surroundings doesn't really qualify you in claiming the rights/wrongs/should've/could've of how to handle this situation. I'm sure you already know that once you have a shotgun pointed at you your fine motor skills go out the window.

Problems with your assumptions:

I'm not working as undercover security for a church, but when I was a gun for hire I wore a gun belt with the proper holster(no serpa crap for me) and I wore my armor. So yea I know a little bit of what I'm talking about

[SS Junk]

Not trying to assume anything. Just trying to figure out how you can come up with this scenario looking at a 2 dimensional picture from ~40ft. away. I'm not sure what you mean by being a gun for hire? Regardless, you trained for these scenarios then? Because you know things you also know this is a perishable skill. I talked to an individual who is in LE and has been a part of his agency's Special Assignment Team for several years. He said there really is no right answer, but the last thing one wants to do is remain directly in front of a gun. Said it's much better to run. If wanting to return fire then train to do such things while on the move, and to not use Brother Anton as cover to unholster your gun. Especially when a shooter is standing directly in front of you. Much better to be a moving target.
Now, saying all this I am not qualified and don't know the answers. I'm regurgitating what I was told, however it makes sense. I don't train for these types of things either and if that happened in front of me in the time it took the gunman to open fire there is a good possibility I wouldn't know whether to shit my pants or wind my watch.

[Ruffdaddy]

Problems with your assumptions:

I'm not working as undercover security for a church, but when I was a gun for hire I wore a gun belt with the proper holster(no serpa crap for me) and I wore my armor. So yea I know a little bit of what I'm talking about

Damn...how many gunfights have you been in?!

[Chas_svo]

Damn...how many gunfights have you been in?!

All of them.

[Cum Dumpster]

Not trying to assume anything. Just trying to figure out how you can come up with this scenario looking at a 2 dimensional picture from ~40ft. away. I'm not sure what you mean by being a gun for hire? Regardless, you trained for these scenarios then? Because you know things you also know this is a perishable skill. I talked to an individual who is in LE and has been a part of his agency's Special Assignment Team for several years. He said there really is no right answer, but the last thing one wants to do is remain directly in front of a gun. Said it's much better to run. If wanting to return fire then train to do such things while on the move, and to not use Brother Anton as cover to unholster your gun. Especially when a shooter is standing directly in front of you. Much better to be a moving target.
Now, saying all this I am not qualified and don't know the answers. I'm regurgitating what I was told, however it makes sense. I don't train for these types of things either and if that happened in front of me in the time it took the gunman to open fire there is a good possibility I wouldn't know whether to shit my pants or wind my watch.

OMG you’re an idiot.

[Gasser64]

OMG you’re an idiot.

To be fair though, that's 99.9% of the people here. The ones who aren't, don't post.

[LS1Goat]

To be fair though, that's 99.9% of the people here. The ones who aren't, don't post.

Oh, really. Tell me more....please elaborate, if you are capable of doing so. Make a cogent statement to support your rather perspicacious opinion.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Not trying to assume anything. .... but the last thing one wants to do is remain directly in front of a gun. Said it's much better to run. If wanting to return fire then train to do such things while on the move, and to not use Brother Anton as cover to unholster your gun. Especially when a shooter is standing directly in front of you. Much better to be a moving target.

From my original post

"Security put their guard down, and became compliant. .... If he would have moved to concealment then pulled his weapon that would have changed how this played out "

What others have to say about small of the back carry:

on a side note this whole video is mind boggling

Here's what Tu Lam teaches

"Its about moving to cover"

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Damn...how many gunfights have you been in?!

None of them I never needed to fire my weapon. That why I am here talking with the rest of this tool shed

[Gasser64]

Oh, really. Tell me more....please elaborate, if you are capable of doing so. Make a cogent statement to support your rather perspicacious opinion.

Get some needle nose pliers to get the hook out of your mouth. ROFL I think you got your answer

[LS1Goat]

Get some needle nose pliers to get the hook out of your mouth. ROFL I think you got your answer

Interesting. Kind of what of what I expecting. A callow baseless answer to a serious question. I don't harbor prejudice attitudes, but I think you have a lot to learn. I'll be so bold to say you'll figure it out eventually, it takes time.

When you get older there is a massive paradigm shift and you'll see life completely different.

Just remember my friend. Macbeth Scene V

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[SS Junk]

F"Security put their guard down, and became compliant. .... If he would have moved to concealment then pulled his weapon that would have changed how this played out "

And as I said. Easy to sit there after the fact and inform everyone what should have happened. Especially when behind the keyboard mapping out some choreographed effort you believe they should have followed. No church member is going to unholster their weapon in front of the congregation when they have no idea if this guy was armed. Especially since it has been reported the pastor knew him and supposedly helped him out.

What others have to say about small of the back carry

The first victim was heavy set. It could be because of this the only comfortable position was most likely 6 o'clock. I agree, it's not a good place to keep a firearm for many reasons of which I'm sure you already know. However, you have no clue why the victim was fumbling for his gun. He could have practiced many times, but had never done so while having a gun pointed at him.
Hopefully for yours and perhaps others' sake, when you find that class you're wanting to take you aren't that guy who knows it all and can actually be teachable.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

And as I said.

what you want to do is be right and me be wrong to please your ego. All I suggested is that they needed to be better security guards. If somebody wants to take the role of sheepdog to protect the flock they cant remain sheep with sharp teeth in their back pocket when the wolf is in the flock.




notice that second video addressees most of your concerns

[SS Junk]

what you want to do is be right and me be wrong to please your ego.

Nah. I just don't believe it's realistic for those to analyze this and do a step-by-step of what should have happened.

notice that second video addressees most of your concerns

He makes great points about training with whatever garb and gun you are going to wear. Agree with everything he says other than when he starts in on what should have happened. Especially the whole "If I have an A/D it will just hit some fat bits and I'll be able to return fire..." Exactly how does he know this? He can sit there and guarantee the trajectory path of an A/D and how he'd react to being shot? It's just silly.
His 'at the ready' position is also great to know and practice, but do we know the shooter would not recognize this? Do we know if the shooter was eyeballing both Brothers Tony and Richard? Do we know if the shooter would have followed that very pattern if you or your dude in the video would have positioned themselves differently? As you know every situation is different, and doing a point-by-point analysis of what should have happened is not realistic when none of us had been in contact from the point the shooter was in contact with the pastor to when he started shooting.