So, uh... About that debt ceiling.

[Denny]

Aaaaand there goes silver (both back in the green for today).

[Denny]

There goes gold... stand by for silver

[Denny]

Meh, the Chinese hold a trillion of our 14 trillion total debt. It is a debate whether they can even dump what they hold since they have such a trade imbalance with us. Besides, what are they going to use for a reserve currency? The Euro is the only logical conclusion and we have the Diet Coke of debt problems in comparison to Europe.

I'm telling you, they'll raise interest rates by the end of this year. Especially if the headline unemployment rate keeps going down.

And I'm telling you that they're going to be pumping extra fiat into the system to even keep up a decent trailing pace.

China will keep trying to push an IMF/World Bank-based currency or SDR.

This just in... FED made no change to the rate as of 20 seconds ago.

[Broncojohnny]

Maybe not another QE the way the first two were brought in, but there will be another round of QE coming into the system (maybe even a slight interest raise).

And look at China about to dump 70% of our bullshit they're holding. If the FED doesn't buy it up, who will?

Meh, the Chinese hold a trillion of our 14 trillion total debt. It is a debate whether they can even dump what they hold since they have such a trade imbalance with us. Besides, what are they going to use for a reserve currency? The Euro is the only logical conclusion and we have the Diet Coke of debt problems in comparison to Europe.

I'm telling you, they'll raise interest rates by the end of this year. Especially if the headline unemployment rate keeps going down.

[Denny]

They can't just print their way out of it though, their corporate masters won't let them, a gallon of gas will cost $8 if they do QE3.

They'll kick the can down the road. They won't do QE3 and will raise interest rates. They'll raise the debt ceiling and hope tax revenues from an improving economy will come up enough to cover the deficit. Same thing they did in the early 1990s.

Maybe not another QE the way the first two were brought in, but there will be another round of QE coming into the system (maybe even a slight interest raise).

And look at China about to dump 70% of our bullshit they're holding. If the FED doesn't buy it up, who will?

[Denny]

But it will slowly bring about the inevitable. This is irreversable from the moment we went into QE1. We owe XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX,XXX USD (no matter what the USD is worth). Might as well pay it off.

This economy is done, the way the FED is releasing it is the easiest way to to ease into the shit pile that we're headed to.

[Broncojohnny]

They will print into oblivian. That is their ONLY chance. Ask Benanke, he knows what he's doing, really. I make him out to be the bad guy a lot, but the way he's introducing the increase of fiat into the system is the best way at this point. Anyone in that position couldn't do it better right now. Raising the interest will screw it all up too.

They can't just print their way out of it though, their corporate masters won't let them, a gallon of gas will cost $8 if they do QE3.

They'll kick the can down the road. They won't do QE3 and will raise interest rates. They'll raise the debt ceiling and hope tax revenues from an improving economy will come up enough to cover the deficit. Same thing they did in the early 1990s.

[TexasDevilDog]

They will print into oblivian. That is their ONLY chance. Ask Benanke, he knows what he's doing, really. I make him out to be the bad guy a lot, but the way he's introducing the increase of fiat into the system is the best way at this point. Anyone in that position couldn't do it better right now. Raising the interest will screw it all up too.

The FED destroying the dollar helps nobody, especially poor and old people. Zimbabwe should be an example of that.

[Broncojohnny]

The debt ceiling covers both. Unless the throw in a "Well, except for this and that," debt service or not, then they're agreeing to spend past the limit, thus raising the limit. If we're already working in a deficit and we're pinging the debt limit, they either blow through the limit or officially raise the ceiling (either way raising the ceiling in all reality).

What I am saying is that the debt limit shouldn't be raised. Debt service payments should go on as planned and what is left in Uncle Sam's pocket is what should be spent.

I know they'll call it eight different things to lie about what they are doing but that is what I would like to see done. I know it won't happen.

[Denny]

Are you saying the county is insolvent? If you are saying revenue is not enough to cover interest payments, then raising the debt ceiling will do nothing in long term.

Our government cannot borrow its way to prosperity. Many Americans tried that and it did not work.

They will print into oblivian. That is their ONLY chance. Ask Benanke, he knows what he's doing, really. I make him out to be the bad guy a lot, but the way he's introducing the increase of fiat into the system is the best way at this point. Anyone in that position couldn't do it better right now. Raising the interest will screw it all up too.

[Broncojohnny]

Why would you then waste your time in this thread when it is perfectly logical tto you o borrow our way out of debt?

Where exactly did I say that, moron?

[TexasDevilDog]

What is there to debate exactly, third grade math?

Total federal outlay is Z, debt service is Y, spending is X

X+Y=Z

If Z decreases and Y stays the same what happens?

DERP

Why would you then waste your time in this thread when it is perfectly logical tto you o borrow our way out of debt?

[Denny]

If the limit weren't increased, they would have to cut discretionary spending. Debt service isn't discretionary.

I'm actually with TDD on this, they would figure out a way, really quickly, to keep the doors open and the lights on. Liberals would be crying tears on every TV channel for their pet causes that suck on the government teet but they would find a way.

The debt ceiling covers both. Unless the throw in a "Well, except for this and that," debt service or not, then they're agreeing to spend past the limit, thus raising the limit. If we're already working in a deficit and we're pinging the debt limit, they either blow through the limit or officially raise the ceiling (either way raising the ceiling in all reality).

[TexasDevilDog]

Even if we stopped spending 100% right now, we'd go over the ceiling. They wouldn't work on a budget, they wouldn't do anything. They have to pay people to work. If we don't raise it, 100% of the government would stop immediately. None of the "essential personnel" crap either. No one home to pay the interest payments.

I see what you're saying, but you're looking at it from a personal perspective if you hit your limit. This country is a business and "We the People" are the owners and operators, but all operators are paid. On a personal debt, you can't fire yourself from doing your own personal expenses or you default because it doesn't get done.

Are you saying the county is insolvent? If you are saying revenue is not enough to cover interest payments, then raising the debt ceiling will do nothing in long term.

Our government cannot borrow its way to prosperity. Many Americans tried that and it did not work.

[Broncojohnny]

Even if we stopped spending 100% right now, we'd go over the ceiling. They wouldn't work on a budget, they wouldn't do anything. They have to pay people to work. If we don't raise it, 100% of the government would stop immediately. None of the "essential personnel" crap either. No one home to pay the interest payments.

I see what you're saying, but you're looking at it from a personal perspective if you hit your limit. This country is a business and "We the People" are the owners and operators, but all operators are paid. On a personal debt, you can't fire yourself from doing your own personal expenses or you default because it doesn't get done.

If the limit weren't increased, they would have to cut discretionary spending. Debt service isn't discretionary.

I'm actually with TDD on this, they would figure out a way, really quickly, to keep the doors open and the lights on. Liberals would be crying tears on every TV channel for their pet causes that suck on the government teet but they would find a way.