Just wondering, 9/11..

[ceyko]

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom...agar-0112.html

I'm just a dumb guy that sits around camp fires and burns stuff. Granted, we don't have "structural steel" for anything, but nearly everything we put in the camp fire eventually turns red hot and/or melts. Glass, steel stuff and aluminum.

That's just a camp fire that we get nice and hot.

Is it possible that things other then the beams themselves let lose? Bolts, rivets etc? Concrete and so forth collapsing causing shifts in weight?

I deal in other technologies and often see things that are not technically possible. However, when spending a lot of time doing a root cause analysis we find glitches and other miscalculations (or bugs) that caused the problem. I just find it plausible that the massive amounts of fuel and exposure to prolonged heat in those towers could've caused the issues.

Otherwise, you feel like charges were detonated in just the right places? Were they kept there for just the right event?

[WildBill]

Oh jeeeez!
Nutcases abound!

[mustangguy289]

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/0112/eagar/eagar-0112.html

[mustangguy289]

Better do some more research on the material used on those buildings first.

The building was made of structural steel with varying thicknesses and grade. Depending on the carbon content of the steel... the LOWEST melting point is much higher than the heat created by a jet fuel fire.


Here is a summary for you:

http://guardian.150m.com/wtc/small/how-hot.htm

Summarizing:

We have assumed that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat.

Then it is impossible that the jet fuel, by itself, raised the temperature of this floor more than 257° C (495° F).

Now this temperature is nowhere near high enough to even begin explaining the World Trade Center Tower collapse.

It is not even close to the first critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F) where steel loses about half its strength and it is nowhere near the quotes of 1500° C that we constantly read about in our lying media.

"In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments."

Quote from the FEMA report (Appendix A).

Recalling that the North Tower suffered no major structural damage from the intense office fire of February 23, 1975, we can conclude that the ensuing office fires of September 11, 2001, also did little extra damage to the towers.

[Denny]

I don't believe it was an inside job... but I don't believe the planes caused those towers to fall either. Simple engineering and material properties proves that the towers would not have collapsed (imploded actually) the way they did from a plane crash and jet fuel fire.

Better do some more research on the material used on those buildings first.

[mustangguy289]

I don't believe it was an inside job... but I don't believe the planes caused those towers to fall either. Simple engineering and material properties proves that the towers would not have collapsed (imploded actually) the way they did from a plane crash and jet fuel fire.

[Baba Ganoush]

Inside job by a crooked government? NO. It was a cowardice act by determined individuals.

You insult alot of people when say it was planned by our own government. Those poor souls who parished should rise up and kick you in the mouth.

How the government exploited our fear afterwards is a different story.

[jdgregory84]

I don't think it was an inside job. I think that the Al Queda plan was a LOT more intricate than running a couple planes into the buildings. Because of that, I think that the American government is embarassed that this shit was pulled off right under their noses.

[jnobles06]

if you want a country's resources just make it your enemy so you can justify its occupation. it was an inside job, no doubt. who benefited all the 80% of our government that is in the oil business. dick cheney, ceo of halliburton which owns KBR, which is the company who got the contract to feed and house all the troops overseas in the sandbox.

plus you're saying that the "terrorists" that planned this whole thing did precision flying dive maneuvers in huge aircraft when just before the attack one of the alleged pilots could barely fly a private plane? also, why did they just commit the one attack then stop? if they were really terrorist attacks don't you think that there would have been more attempts by now?

look at the size of the hole in the pentagon pics. there is no way a commercial airplane made that tiny hole and left no debris. planes just don't disappear after hitting a building. planes have hit mountains and left more debris than what was left at the pentagon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[2] One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington."

[Denny]

Right. There are some truths and lies on both sides. No one will really know for sure. My take is that a group of Muslims that were tied to Osama actually executed these acts on September 11th. Were there signs and enforcement agents following? How could there not be? Maybe they didn't have the specifics, but it is only something that people in the know would know... certainly not anyone in this thread.

We can spout off and regurgitate other peoples' information all day.

I'll just give my take:
I think that this tragedy happened as a result of a radical group of terrorists that were ignored and not taken too seriously by our government, through their growth and support of more people than was realized. Those in government that did realize it, were a little OK with them building their efforts in order to push their own agendas and scare tactics.

I do not think that anyone thought the next attack would be this devistating, though.

I think that this initiated a lot of more government growth, regulation, opportunity for wars, etc. from all of this.

Many balls were dropped on our side that allowed this to happen and the sad part is that those who did it are OK with it.

[Hobie]

I think of it like OJ. Did he murder those two people, yep, did the LAPD do a little planting to solidify the case, yep.

So there may be some things here and there that don't add up like the cell phone calls from the planes, finding a hijackers pristine wallet with ID quickly in the rubble, yadda yadda yadda, but it was still a terrorist attack by (mostly) Saudi extremist. You just get a few cowboys here and there buttering up the story for the papers and the public.

I do find it interesting how often some figure "worked" by the CIA winds up becoming the face of our enemy. Hell, he might even wind up shooting the president. Lots of people pulling lots of strings for lots of reasons. Not really much we can do about it.

[ceyko]

I don't think conspiracy theorists are morons. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite. Of course some are nothing more than bandwagon jumpers, but I believe conspiracy theorists, in large, are quite intelligent.



Misguided, but not stupid.

Just too extreme, just lost most other groups...a lot of decent thoughts and ideas taken too far. Hell, Dems/Reps...same...etc...etc No common sense middle ground a lot of times.

[KungFuHamster]

all the CIA had to do was watch "Delta Force" and the events of that horrible day couldve been prevented. "those people" hijacking airplanes and using them for what ever means to an end should have come to a surprise to no one.

[jasonw_2005]

okay imma set the record straight for u damn theroists. On September 11th, 2001 this country was attacked by a terrorist group led by Osama Bin Laden. They hijacked our shit and flew it into our shit which tore up our shit and started some major shit. THE END

[D]

I was in 10th grade, social studies. I guess I'm nieeve(sp?) but some of the things in the 3 or so documentaries about it especially tower 7 and a few other small things just seemed weird to me. Trust me I want to believe that it was Osama, but I dont know. I guess none of us ever will know without a doubt though. I do agree that someone would have came out and said something somehow if it was an inside job or whatever. Then again failing to act on itellagence almost isn't any better, if that's really the case. Hell 9/11 is one of the main reasons I joined the Marine corps in early 05.

It was my 17th birthday on 9/11/01...totally gut wrenching and the driving reason behind me enlisting in the Air Force in 2003.