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  • Thank goodness we retired those useless space shuttles

    Astronauts May Evacuate Space Station in November, NASA Says

    The International Space Station may have to start operating without a crew in November if Russian engineers don't figure out soon what caused a recent rocket failure, NASA officials announced today (Aug. 29).

    The unmanned Russian cargo ship Progress 44 crashed just after its Aug. 24 launch to deliver 2.9 tons of supplies to the orbiting lab. The failure was caused by a problem with the Progress' Soyuz rocket, which is similar to the one Russia uses to launch its crew-carrying vehicle — also called Soyuz — to the station.

    Currently, six astronauts reside on the space station. They shouldn't be unduly affected by the Progress crash, NASA officials said, because they have enough supplies to last a while on orbit.

    But three of these astronauts are due to return to Earth next month, and the rest are scheduled to come back in mid-November. At the moment, the Soyuz is the only way to get astronauts to and from the station. So if the rocket anomaly isn't identified and fixed soon, a fresh crew won't be able to reach the orbiting lab before the last three spaceflyers head for home. [Photos: Building the International Space Station]

    Unmanned for the first time in a decade?

    That situation would leave the $100 billion orbiting lab unmanned for the first time since 2001. Still, it wouldn't be a disaster, according to NASA officials.

    "We know how to do this," NASA's space station program manager Mike Suffredini told reporters today. "Assuming the systems keep operating, like I've said, we can command the vehicle from the ground and operate it fine, and remain on orbit indefinitely."

    NASA would of course prefer to keep some crew aboard the orbiting lab, Suffredini added. Leaving the station unmanned would cut back significantly on the scientific research being done 240 miles (386 kilometers) above the Earth. In the wake of the space shuttle's retirement last month, NASA has repeatedly stressed the importance of that research, and the scientific potential of the station.

    But the timing just might not work out. Two Soyuz spacecraft are currently docked to the station to take its six astronauts home. The vehicles are only rated to spend about 200 days in space, so they'll have to depart soon. [How Russia's Progress Spaceships Work (Infographic)]

    Light at the landing site

    Lighting conditions at the Soyuz's Kazakhstan landing site are also an issue. NASA and the Russian space agency mandate that landings must occur at least one hour after dawn and one hour before dusk, to facilitate better search and rescue operations should any be required.

    The lighting window closes for about five weeks on Sept. 19 for the first crew and around Nov. 19 for the second. Waiting for a new window to open would stretch the Soyuz spacecraft beyond their 200-day ratings in both cases, Suffredini said.

    So all six astronauts on the space station will almost certainly have left the orbiting lab by mid-November. Russian engineers are working hard to give crewed Soyuz launches the best chance to meet that deadline; the next one is slated to blast off Sept. 21, but that's almost certainly not going to happen, Suffredini said.

    Russia has formed a commission to determine the cause of the Progress crash, and to figure out how to fix it. But NASA says it won't rush anything, as astronaut safety is its chief priority.

    "We'll just see how it plays out," Suffredini said.

    NASA won't put any crews on a Soyuz until the rocket has had several successful unmanned launches, he added. Those could happen relatively soon. Russia plans to use Soyuz boosters to launch a commercial payload and another Progress supply ship by late October.

    The Progress crash marked the latest in a string of Russian launch failures over the last 10 months. This series of mishaps has caused some concern among U.S. lawmakers and experts, since NASA will rely on Russia to loft its astronauts to orbit until private American crew-carrying spaceships come online. That could start happening by 2015, officials have said.
    Stevo
    Originally posted by SSMAN
    ...Welcome to the land of "Fuck it". No body cares, and if they do, no body cares.

  • #2
    Wasn't long ago Russia said the ISS was retiring sooner than the ISS community said it was...
    "Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey

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    • #3
      "They shouldn't be unduly affected by the Progress crash, NASA officials said, because they have enough supplies to last a while on orbit."


      Enough to last "a while"???

      Maybe the Chinese have a rocket capable of rescuing the astronauts/cosmonauts.

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      • #4
        If we had to do an emergency rescue we could just bring the shuttle out and do it. Your not going to convince me that we as American's would just leave anyone up there to just die.

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        • #5
          It takes an inordinate amount of time to get a shuttle prepped for launch though. NASA is also laying off their people with the expertise to do it.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The King View Post
            "They shouldn't be unduly affected by the Progress crash, NASA officials said, because they have enough supplies to last a while on orbit."

            Enough to last "a while"???
            Plenty of time!
            Originally posted by The King View Post
            Maybe the Chinese have a rocket capable of rescuing the astronauts/cosmonauts.
            Originally posted by Woods Racing Transmission View Post
            If we had to do an emergency rescue we could just bring the shuttle out and do it. Your not going to convince me that we as American's would just leave anyone up there to just die.
            They can get them home, they just don't have a proven safe way to get new crew back up there yet.
            Originally posted by Broncojohnny
            HOORAY ME and FUCK YOU!

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            • #7
              After reading that my question is....

              Is 2.9 tons of supplies still 2.9tons of supplies in space?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by franks View Post
                After reading that my question is....

                Is 2.9 tons of supplies still 2.9tons of supplies in space?
                In terms of mass, yes. Weight, no.
                Men have become the tools of their tools.
                -Henry David Thoreau

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The King View Post
                  "They shouldn't be unduly affected by the Progress crash, NASA officials said, because they have enough supplies to last a while on orbit."


                  Enough to last "a while"???

                  Maybe the Chinese have a rocket capable of rescuing the astronauts/cosmonauts.
                  They have enough supplies until November/December. The Chinese don't have a spacecraft that can dock with ISS..

                  Originally posted by Woods Racing Transmission View Post
                  If we had to do an emergency rescue we could just bring the shuttle out and do it. Your not going to convince me that we as American's would just leave anyone up there to just die.
                  We don't have to do a rescue. Every ISS crew has a Soyuz docked to the station that they use to get back to Earth. The only risk here is that we may have to leave ISS unmanned.

                  Originally posted by The King View Post
                  It takes an inordinate amount of time to get a shuttle prepped for launch though. NASA is also laying off their people with the expertise to do it.
                  It takes about two years to build the external tank for a shuttle. There are no tanks left to launch the orbiters so we would have to wait at least two years.




                  To summarize. There is no danger to the astronauts/cosmonauts onboard ISS. They can always leave the station via the Soyuz spacecraft that is docked. The problem experienced last week is with the rocket that is used to launch Soyuz and Progress (the supply ship) space craft. The spacecraft itself is fine.

                  Russia has another Progress that is supposed to be launched in November. If they can solve the problems with the rocket then there won't be an issue.

                  There hasn't been anything said in the press about this but NASA and SpaceX are supposed to launch the Dragon cargo ship to ISS in late November. This is supposed to be just a test mission with just a few non essential supplies. Obviously this mission is going to undertake a huge importance if that next Progress mission fails or doesn't launch. Dragon can actually carry quite a bit more in cargo and supplies than Progress can. The only problem they still consider it to be unproven. That said, the Falcon 9 rocket used to launch Dragon has now had two perfect launches and the last launch actually flew a Dragon capsule into orbit. It also successfully made a reentry and recovery in the Pacific.

                  In an extreme emergency, Dragon could be used as a life boat to bring people back from ISS.

                  IMO this incident just gave SpaceX a real chance to shine. However they are being very quiet about their plans right now. I suspect they don't want to show their hand until they know for sure that they'll be ready to fly in November. Who knows, they might even be working to fly sooner.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
                    It takes about two years to build the external tank for a shuttle. There are no tanks left to launch the orbiters so we would have to wait at least two years.
                    Or someone in the private sector could build it in 3 weeks for $4.

                    J/K but I'm looking forward to seeing what it costs private industry to do what NASA did for billions.
                    Originally posted by racrguy
                    What's your beef with NPR, because their listeners are typically more informed than others?
                    Originally posted by racrguy
                    Voting is a constitutional right, overthrowing the government isn't.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Broncojohnny View Post
                      Or someone in the private sector could build it in 3 weeks for $4.

                      J/K but I'm looking forward to seeing what it costs private industry to do what NASA did for billions.
                      Well, let's run the numbers a bit.

                      The Space Shuttle cost roughly $450MILLION per flight. However if you amortize all the other costs of the program over every flight you get a cost of about $1.5BILLION.

                      When the Bush administration correctly decided to end the Shuttle program, they started the Constellation program to develop the Orion capsule and the Ares I rocket. We has spent over $5BILLION developing Ares I and it has never flown. It is estimated that we would have spent as much as $40BILLION on development.

                      Needless to say, it was cancelled. We spent $5BILLION and have nothing to show for it. The Orion capsule is being renamed the MPCV (Multi Purpose Crew Vehicle) and will be launched on an upgraded Delta rocket. It is still expected to be pretty expensive. However, I should say that the cost of Orion has ballooned because of NASAs mistakes with Ares I. Other than that, it appears to be a well run program that is managed by Lockheed Martin.

                      The Dragon capsule and Falcon 9 rocket were developed as part of the COTS program, started by the Bush administration, to have private companies deliver cargo to the space station. NASA paid $250MILLION in seed money to Space X. For that $250MILLION we got a rocket that flew almost perfectly on its first launch and a space craft that flew with perfection on it's maiden flight.

                      Dragon did not have to be built with the ability to carry people. However SpaceX decided to build it with that in mind. It didn't cost tax payers anything extra for that. Now Dragon is being upgraded for exactly that. However it won't be ready until 2015. SpaceX estimates that it will cost between $800million and $1BILLION to finish the upgrades to Dragon for manned flight.

                      Space X also took the Falcon 9 rocket and scaled it up to become the Falcon 9 Heavy. They developed a unique cross tanking system that lets it carry TWICE the payload of the Space Shuttle (about half that of a Saturn V) for a max of $125MILLION (half the price of a Shuttle flight).

                      Space X is also developing the manned version of Dragon so that it can make powered landings with it's rocket motors. This has the benefit of giving it a quicker turn around time but it has an interesting potential. SpaceX wants to make Dragon capable of landing on the Moon or potentially on Mars.

                      These guys are getting us the most for our money.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Looks like they are starting to zero in on the cause of the rocket failure.

                        [/caption] The Russian news agency Itar-Tass is reporting that the cause of the August 24 failure and crash of the Progress re-supply ship that was supposed to bring supplies to the International Space Station may have already been determined. “Members of the emergency commission have determined the cause of the failure of the Soyuz carrier … Continue reading "Cause of Progress Crash May Have Been Determined"


                        The Russian news agency Itar-Tass is reporting that the cause of the August 24 failure and crash of the Progress re-supply ship that was supposed to bring supplies to the International Space Station may have already been determined. “Members of the emergency commission have determined the cause of the failure of the Soyuz carrier rocket’s third stage engine,” Roscosmos spokesman Alexei Kuznetsov was quoted. “It is a malfunction in the engine’s gas generator.”

                        If the cause has indeed been found and if the anomaly can be resolved to the satisfaction of both Roscosmos and NASA, it might prevent a worst-case scenario of having to de-crew the International Space Station by mid-November, which NASA Space Station Program Manager Mike Suffredini said was a potential outcome.

                        The emergency commission to study the problem was only formed on August 26, and that a cause has already been found comes as a bit of a surprise. The commission is lead by Anatoly Koroteev, head of the Russian Keldysh science research institute on rockets.

                        “He is a man with quite a bit of experience in this field for our Russian colleagues, and indeed the world,” Suffredini said during a press briefing on Monday morning. But Suffredini also said that it would likely take the commission awhile to sort out the cause and its implications to future flights.

                        “The team is just getting going,” Suffredini commented. “They are trying to work quickly to resolve the anomaly but they don’t want to leave any stone unturned.”

                        What actions will be taken to resolve the problem now that a cause may be established are not yet known. Suffredini said that two Soyuz-family unmanned rockets are scheduled to launch soon, which may provide a chance to test any fixes on unmanned launches before attempting a manned launch. A commercial Soyuz to launch a mobile communications satellites is scheduled on Oct. 8, and the Russians may launch the Progress resupply ship that is currently scheduled for October 26 a few weeks earlier in order to have another unmanned launch to study the problem.

                        The Progress cargo ships launch on a Soyuz-U rocket, while the Soyuz crew capsules, the Soyuz TMA launches on a Soyuz-FG. The third stages of the two rockets are virtually identical. The Soyuz-U rocket has had 745 successful launches and just 21 failures over nearly four decades. The Soyuz-FG has had 25 launches, all successful.

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                        • #13
                          Can't wait to see apollo 18

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                          • #14
                            that movie does look good but knowing space movies it will turn out to be the aliens are inside their heads.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 03mustangdude View Post
                              that movie does look good but knowing space movies it will turn out to be the aliens are inside their heads.
                              Well that wasn't the case on that movie "Supernova".

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