Imagine There'e No Heaven

[lowthreeohz]

Hattter, you always deliver us the same horse shit over and over and love to argue......but when someone actually asks you what created everything, you clam right the fuck up or give us your typical google delivered crapola.

So.....WHAT created everything? What started it all?

I mean, you claim God to be nonsense, so lets hear the answer.

I don't think he's ever claimed to know, only pointed out that the general populace has latched onto this dream that has a very minuscule probability of being correct.

I see it the other way, as his answers are always based in logic and reason and the religious folks just revert back to quoting verse or "you can't prove it's a lie so its true" mentality.

[ELVIS]

so this isnt about redneck heaven?

god bless.

[Jester]

Hattter, you always deliver us the same horse shit over and over and love to argue......but when someone actually asks you what created everything, you clam right the fuck up or give us your typical google delivered crapola.

So.....WHAT created everything? What started it all?

I mean, you claim God to be nonsense, so lets hear the answer.

and for fuck sake you dont have to butcher and analyze every single quote you happen to answer and dissect every sentence. Just sum it up.

[Maddhattter]

"Apparently it was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal162 acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao …
The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.
The historical record of collective atheism is thus 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. It is not only Stalin and Mao who were so murderously inclined, they were merely the worst of the whole Hell-bound lot. For every Pol Pot whose infamous name is still spoken with horror today, there was a Mengistu, a Bierut, and a Choibalsan, godless men whose names are now forgotten everywhere but in the lands they once ruled with a red hand.
Is a 58 percent chance that an atheist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules sufficient evidence that atheism does, in fact, provide a systematic influence to do bad things? If that is not deemed to be conclusive, how about the fact that the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them. If one considers the statistically significant size of the historical atheist set and contrasts it with the fact that not one in a thousand religious leaders have committed similarly large-scale atrocities, it is impossible to conclude otherwise, even if we do not yet understand exactly why this should be the case. Once might be an accident, even twice could be coincidence, but fifty-two incidents in ninety years reeks of causation!"- Vox Day

I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to convey with the above quote. It seems that you’re trying to state that atheists can do terrible things. I would not disagree with that statement. Atheists can do terrible things, the same as everyone else. However, the quote above has a number of problems in its reasoning.

It was wise to leave out that creation.com was your source considering that they have no academic validity or demonstrable intellectual honesty as a resource.

Regardless, for the sake of discussion, I’m willing to concede that this programmer is a better historian than… well, historians.

What he has failed to do in his tirade is demonstrate when, at any point, any of the deaths he references above were done in the name of atheism. The link I presented is an incident in which the perpetrator has stated that he performed his murderous act in the name of Christianity, in the same way that the Muslims who attached the Libyan embassy stated that they did so in the name of Islam. He has demonstrated nothing beyond his assertion that these people are atheists and they did bad things. Again, for the sake of the discussion, I won’t touch on whether or not his numbers are accurate. If his assertion is that atheists can be evil, again, I’ll agree wholeheartedly. He just has a long way to go before he can demonstrate that any of this was done in the name of atheism. Ultimately, he has demonstrated correlation based on the data provided. What he has not done, is even shown that any causation exists.

The common example of this flaw in reasoning is: “Both Hitler and Stalin are mass murderers, both also had mustaches. Therefore, all people who have mustaches are mass murderers.” Surely you can see how the latter doesn’t necessarily follow the former. Sure, people with mustaches could be mass murderers, but there is no reason to think that they are.

His entire assertion is that when an atheist leader’s orders cause a death, it is the result of atheism. If we accept that, then apply it to the opposite side of the coin the picture changes drastically. This would mean that nearly every death cause or ordered by a governmental action is theistic; of which Christians are a subset of. This radically changes the numbers his is presenting. Especially when you consider the fact that he is comparing the actions of a group of 52 people to the actions of any individual.

So, even if we take what he says at face value, his argument does not stand on when applied beyond his hen pecked sample nor does his conclusion follow that these people’s atheism led to their actions. All this before any of his other claims are scrutinized.

God still loves the Hatter (with 3 T's for some fucked up reason) and Eric too, I think.

And like Denny said, Hattter, Jesus does love you.

There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.

I would rather believe in heaven and there not be one, than not believe in heaven and there be one.

I’ll never understand why people find Pascal’s Wager is so convincing. It has no intellectual weight considering that it’s not properly taking all the variables into consideration. Given the odds, you are far more likely to wind up in another religion’s hell than your own heaven due to your heretical (in the eyes of nearly every other religion) belief in the genie of Abraham. Especially considering that there is no more evidence for your favored specter than any of theirs.

[ELVIS]

Almost? I see you're in a generous mood this morning!

i think it's the Jesus!

god bless.

its almost like a bad bumper sticker!

god bless.

Almost? I see you're in a generous mood this morning!

[ceyko]

Do you have to believe in heaven to be admitted in to heaven?

What if a person has lived their life being good and doing good for others yet doesn't believe in God. Would they reach the gates of heaven and be turned away?

Sent from my Galaxy S III

I believe you'd be fine - but I'm thinking the hardcore bible thumpers would disagree.

[RCITNet]

Do you have to believe in heaven to be admitted in to heaven?

What if a person has lived their life being good and doing good for others yet doesn't believe in God. Would they reach the gates of heaven and be turned away?

Sent from my Galaxy S III

[ceyko]

1. If religion disappeared, we'd find 1001 other reasons to kill each other. Money, women...etc

2. If there is no heaven/hell, we're just worm food and cease to exist. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Edit: ...and killing solely over religion is stupid in my opinion.

[ELVIS]

lol

its almost like a bad bumper sticker!

god bless.

I would rather believe in heaven and there not be one, than not believe in heaven and there be one.

lol

[krazy kris]

I would rather believe in heaven and there not be one, than not believe in heaven and there be one.

[Jester]

"Apparently it was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism … .there have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm … These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal162 acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao …
The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.
The historical record of collective atheism is thus 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. It is not only Stalin and Mao who were so murderously inclined, they were merely the worst of the whole Hell-bound lot. For every Pol Pot whose infamous name is still spoken with horror today, there was a Mengistu, a Bierut, and a Choibalsan, godless men whose names are now forgotten everywhere but in the lands they once ruled with a red hand.
Is a 58 percent chance that an atheist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules sufficient evidence that atheism does, in fact, provide a systematic influence to do bad things? If that is not deemed to be conclusive, how about the fact that the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them. If one considers the statistically significant size of the historical atheist set and contrasts it with the fact that not one in a thousand religious leaders have committed similarly large-scale atrocities, it is impossible to conclude otherwise, even if we do not yet understand exactly why this should be the case. Once might be an accident, even twice could be coincidence, but fifty-two incidents in ninety years reeks of causation!"- Vox Day

And like Denny said, Hattter, Jesus does love you.

[Denny]

God still loves the Hatter (with 3 T's for some fucked up reason) and Eric too, I think.

[Maddhattter]

Imagining a world without heaven is easy. A world without heaven, or a god/s, is indistinguishable from one with.

This is easily demonstrated by the fact that people continue to believe in all sorts of nonsense, regardless of the evidence, and nearly all of that nonsense is mutually exclusive.

And it's not the Christians you have to worry about killing people over religion anymore.

I'd say the people of Norway would disagree with you.