Imagine There'e No Heaven

[Maddhattter]

Thank you Hattter.....i just figured out you are absolutely terrified of stepping out of your comfort zone. You have alot of opinions on science and God.....but i dont see shit about anything else.....with the exception of maybe a computer post here and there.

No need to step out of my comfort zone. I was a theist, Christian specifically, for the majority of my life. At least it will be a majority until my next birthday. Then it will be half.

What I have put forward are not opinions of science and god. Demonstrable, reproducible, independently verifiable evidence that science uses is not opinion, nor is the lack of it that theism uses.

As I oft pointed out in this forum, those who claim to not believe in religious matters are the ones who are most obsessed about them.

I have spoken very little on religious matters. I have repeatedly asked for support of the claims made by theists and demonstrated the fallacies that are present in the presented data. Data and accuracy are not religious matters. They are important to everything, if you have any desire to believing as many true things as possible, and as few untrue things as possible.

Now, let's get back to that magic "singularity" at the heart of the Big Bang theory that mankind's logic and science hath introduced to us.......

You can't get there. Logic and science has not and does not suppose magic in anything. Only theism does that.

[Jester]

LOL. I'm honored. Pulling from your private stash and everything.

However, being married, I have all the instruction I need on how to get laid right on my coffee table...

lol, okay that was pretty good.

[The King]

Holy hell, I just looked at all your posts on here. You need to get out of the religious forum for awhile. Seriously. You are on a mustang website and everything i see you post is about religion. Dafuq?

My logic, reason, and science leads me to believe you do not get laid alot.

As I oft pointed out in this forum, those who claim to not believe in religious matters are the ones who are most obsessed about them.

Now, let's get back to that magic "singularity" at the heart of the Big Bang theory that mankind's logic and science hath introduced to us.......

[Maddhattter]

http://www.artofseductions.com/how-to-pick-up-girls/

LOL. I'm honored. Pulling from your private stash and everything.

However, being married, I have all the instruction I need on how to get laid right on my coffee table...

[Jester]

Just because I post here the most, doesn't mean that I don't get out of the religious forum. It only means that I post here a lot. After all, this may be a mustang forum, where mustangs aren't spoken of by the majority of posts, but it does explicitly have a religious forum do discuss the topic.



Congratulations. I have never before wanted to just repeat the same post twice, in response to the same person.

So, instead of quoting myself, I'll just link it. It's equally relevant to this post.

http://www.artofseductions.com/how-to-pick-up-girls/

Thank you Hattter.....i just figured out you are absolutely terrified of stepping out of your comfort zone. You have alot of opinions on science and God.....but i dont see shit about anything else.....with the exception of maybe a computer post here and there.

[Maddhattter]

Holy hell, I just looked at all your posts on here. You need to get out of the religious forum for awhile. Seriously. You are on a mustang website and everything i see you post is about religion. Dafuq?

Just because I post here the most, doesn't mean that I don't get out of the religious forum. It only means that I post here a lot. After all, this may be a mustang forum, where mustangs aren't spoken of by the majority of posts, but it does explicitly have a religious forum do discuss the topic.

My logic, reason, and science leads me to believe you do not get laid alot.

Congratulations. I have never before wanted to just repeat the same post twice, in response to the same person.

So, instead of quoting myself, I'll just link it. It's equally relevant to this post.

[Jester]

When it comes to discussing the topic using logic, reason and science...

Holy hell, I just looked at all your posts on here. You need to get out of the religious forum for awhile. Seriously. You are on a mustang website and everything i see you post is about religion. Dafuq?

My logic, reason, and science leads me to believe you do not get laid alot.

[Maddhattter]

More power to you fine gents. When i was not a believer I always said that the only thing Christians have is faith. This is still true. All I have is faith.

When it comes to discussing the topic using logic, reason and science...

[Jester]

More power to you fine gents. When i was not a believer I always said that the only thing Christians have is faith. This is still true. All I have is faith.

[Maddhattter]

What I hate about organized religion is all the crap involved. Do this and you go to heaven.....do this and you go to hell.....blah blah blah. It is all a bunch of made up crap to control the masses. end of story.

And yet, you believe in something that is not indicated nor evidenced and, for no good reason(as you’ve demonstrated numerous times by way of fallacious arguments and support), feel that you must behave a certain way to get to heaven and if you don’t you’ll go to hell.

There is no difference between the “organized religion” that you hate and what you do, based on your own statements.

But to actually think that there is not something greater out there, something we cant begin to understand, seems completely insane to me.

To believe something that is not indicated nor evidenced is insane. In fact, its extreme cases are called schizophrenia. Only when it’s popular does it become religion.

Call it The Force, call it aliens, call it God.....whatever floats your boat. But to think there is not something else out there that may have contributed to us being here just doesnt seem right at all. To call it nonsense is what make me shake my head and say "seriously?"

Your lack of understanding of science and reason is no reason to consider a hypothesis that has no evidence to support it. So, I’d have to state… Seriously. When you can demonstrate that your hypothesis is even indicated, I’ll consider it. Considering, thus far, you’ve been able to provide nothing of substance, there is no reason to even posit the hypothesis.

I dont get fluttered for even a second. I am not saying my religion has it right.

Why would you believe something that you don’t think is right? That makes no sense.

I think Buddhists are going about it in the right direction more than anyone else as far as the spiritual side is concerned.

Then why aren’t you Buddhist? Oh, wait… You think they are wrong as they don’t believe in Jesus or the god of Abraham.

But to call Christianity or any other religion nonsense to me is not right. The people that believe and follow every single word in the Bible scare the shit out of me.

The conviction of a held belief is irrelevant to its accuracy. It does not matter how much you, or others, believe or don’t believe something. That makes no difference on whether or not it’s true or should be considered when discussing anything other than mythology.

I think we should always continue our research in science.....but i think we will be making a huge mistake if we ignore the spiritual side of the world.

Then you have abandoned science. Science will continue to ignore anything that is not indicated or evidenced, like your ill-defined “spiritual side of the world”.

What most morons do is lump every person that claims to be a Christian into the same category. You get an atheist like Hatter talk about how we should be afraid of christians......yet i present atheists that murdered many people.....oh sure, lets find a loophole....oh here it is "they didnt do it in the name of atheism!" gimme a break

^This is how I know that you either don’t actually read my responses, or you cannot comprehend them.

A buddhist monk that can make himself so heavy 4 men cant move him, yet light enough to balance on fine china tea cups.
A kung fu master that can knock you out with his chi.
A little old skinny black man that has stared at the sun all of his life having zero problems lifting over 500lbs.
people that have massive amounts of strength.....we have all heard about moms moving cars off of kids.
eric, the list goes on and on
We dismiss so much as adrenaline or this and that......because we cannot explain it.

Not once have you demonstrated anything that “defies logic”. All you’ve done is make multiple arguments from ignorance. If you don’t know how something happens, then you don’t know. This does not indicate or support any supernatural claim.

It’s also amazingly coincidental that, aside from the above instances that we actually do understand, regardless of your ignorance of the topic, all of the other “magic” disappears as soon as an actual scientist , who knows what they’re talking about, shows up to call bullshit the magic runs out or we find that it was, in fact, bullshit. This has happened with every testable supernatural claim that I know of.

Then you need to read it again.

I find the most closed minded individuals are the ones that claim to have the most open minds.

LOL

I am completely open to logic, but there are tons of things that happen every day in this world that defy logic.

From not being able to support your claim to calling yourself close minded. I almost don’t need to be here to show the failures in your reasoning.

You believe in aliens right? So why not a God? Who is to say we werent made by an alien race and they are our God?

I realize that you are speaking to talisman, I’m just going to throw my statements about this in as well.

I believe that it’s possible that there is extraterrestrial life. I cannot deny the existence of aliens, I live in Texas. The come in from the border, so there are a lot here. So, why not a god? Primary difference between the two, is one, aliens, does not require an entire existence outside of our reality that is not supported by anything. In fact, as we have every reason to believe that life on our planet was a natural occurrence, this means that under the right circumstances, it can happen again. Based on the sheer number of planets, and the evidence that suggests that they should be able to support life as we know it, there is no reason to dismiss the possibility and every reason to entertain the idea. This, however, is a far cry from stating that someone knows that aliens exist.

Also, if life on this planet was seeded by extraterrestrial life, they would not be gods. They would just be a different species. That is, unless you think god can be defined as anything. Problem there is that you would render the concept meaningless if it can be defined as anything.

Keep an open mind about everything because at the end of the day, there is not one single person in this thread that is going to prove anything one way or another.

While I’ll agree that this is likely to be true, your assertion that it is the only possible option is incorrect. Considering that an overwhelming majority of atheists were once theists and a great deal of atheists left theism due to logic and reason, it follows that it is possible to demonstrate fallacious thought processes and have that correction change someone’s mind.

You cannot prove there is a God or not one. You cant prove there is a heaven or hell. You cant prove that aliens exist or do not exist.

I, nor anyone else, need demonstrate that anything does not exist. Disbelief is the default stance. This statement demonstrates a misunderstanding of the burden of proof, or a fallacious attempt to shift it off of the person making the positive claim.

What I do find annoying about threads like this is that it is way too jam packed full of people trying to measure how intelligent the other person is. It is a nonstop dickmeasuring intelligence contest. I have no ego anymore and i have an open mind as to what any of the answers could be.

LOL x2

I find the most closed minded individuals are the ones that claim to have the most open minds.

I dont call any of them nonsense.

This doesn’t change that they are, until they can be proven to be accurate.

[Maddhattter]

Hattter, you always deliver us the same horse shit over and over and love to argue......

Only because you and your supporters, consistently bring fallacious evidence that cannot stand to even the slightest of scrutiny. When you bring in some data that isn’t fallacious, I will not demonstrate that it is fallacious, as I will not be able to. I’ve even agreed with some of your points, as they are accurate and the reasoning logically follows.

but when someone actually asks you what created everything, you clam right the fuck up or give us your typical google delivered crapola.

Demonstrable fabrication.

So.....WHAT created everything? What started it all?

Just in case you missed where I gave my answer to this exact question.

However, what I believe is irrelevant. I don’t need to provide a better answer to demonstrate that your reasoning is bad and your evidence fallacious.

I mean, you claim God to be nonsense, so lets hear the answer.

Believing something that is not evident, nor supported by evidence, is irrational. It could also be stated that it makes no sense to do so. Therefore, your deity, along with all others, is nonsense. It’s simple, really.

and for fuck sake you dont have to butcher and analyze every single quote you happen to answer and dissect every sentence. Just sum it up.

I don’t butcher. I handle individual points. You’ve made the claim that I spin things before, yet amazingly have never been able to accurately support your claims. Much like your claims about your special spook.

It just gets old when someone claims it all as nonsense. Well, then what is the answer?

Question answered above.

I am completely open to logic, but there are tons of things that happen every day in this world that defy logic.

Not that you can demonstrate. There’ll be more on this point later, though.

[racrguy]

Then you need to read it again.

I find the most closed minded individuals are the ones that claim to have the most open minds.

Just because someone calls bullshit on your bullshit doesn't mean they aren't open minded.

Had it ever occurred to you that we've heard the same lines you're spouting now from other people, many times?

[lowthreeohz]

You get an atheist like Hatter talk about how we should be afraid of christians......yet i present atheists that murdered many people.....oh sure, lets find a loophole....oh here it is "they didnt do it in the name of atheism!" gimme a break

I think Hattter highlighted the flaw in your logic right here

The common example of this flaw in reasoning is: “Both Hitler and Stalin are mass murderers, both also had mustaches. Therefore, all people who have mustaches are mass murderers.” Surely you can see how the latter doesn’t necessarily follow the former. Sure, people with mustaches could be mass murderers, but there is no reason to think that they are.

[lowthreeohz]

You believe in aliens right? So why not a God? Who is to say we werent made by an alien race and they are our God?

That would be considered blasphemy by most modern religions. By definition god is an omnipotent and all knowing being. If we were some alien science project - would they even qualify as god, or simply our creators?

Keep an open mind about everything because at the end of the day, there is not one single person in this thread that is going to prove anything one way or another.

You cannot prove there is a God or not one. You cant prove there is a heaven or hell. You cant prove that aliens exist or do not exist.

What else to you believe in that is completely inexplicable or backed by exactly 0 scientific evidence?

You believe in aliens right? So why not a God? Who is to say we werent made by an alien race and they are our God?

Keep an open mind about everything because at the end of the day, there is not one single person in this thread that is going to prove anything one way or another.

You cannot prove there is a God or not one. You cant prove there is a heaven or hell. You cant prove that aliens exist or do not exist.

What I do find annoying about threads like this is that it is way too jam packed full of people trying to measure how intelligent the other person is. It is a nonstop dickmeasuring intelligence contest. I have no ego anymore and i have an open mind as to what any of the answers could be.

I dont call any of them nonsense.

I don't "believe in aliens." I think there is other life out there; doesn't mean I think hicks are getting probes shoved up their asses, and I'm sure that lost glimmer of hope saddens you. If you're thinking about my jaunt to Roswell and Area 51, I'm more interested in the pop culture surrounding the mythology than anything else.

There are plenty of things we can't YET explain. There are plenty of others that we CAN explain, that still get dismissed by people who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and think that because they read a book it becomes factual. I have a much more open mind than you think, I'm just not going to pander to anyone who claims to have the absolute answer to an unknowable question.