Naynay and 4eyes

[majorownage]

You think Bush slammed planes into the WTC to start a war in Iraq. A country we got no oil from and made no money off of. And somehow kept it all secret for 11 years

Of course "we" didn't make money. But the military-industrial complex did. War is a big business. These companies have a vested interest in keeping us at war.

Am I saying that Bush planned this, top to bottom? Of course not. I'm saying there is VERY plausible foreknowledge. Additionally, 6 of the hijackers trained at MILITARY BASES. Then there is the the warnings the FBI received from concerned private flight instructors about Arabs training and a possible Osama Bin Laden connection:



Look up the Condoleezza Rice memos received addressing Al Qaeda as a threat and a terrorist organization.

To top it off, NORAD had ran simulations of planes being used as weapons two years before 9/11, which is directly contradictory to what Condoleezza Rice said, which was no such analysis of planes being used as weapons had been done.

Here are my points:
1. Foreknowledge
The administration had been warned MULTIPLE TIMES of terrorism.
in memos, by many different individuals, organizations,and nationalities.

2. Planned invasion before attack
Once again planned invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are outlined in memos.

3. Outlandish bullshit in the commissioner's report.
Passport of terrorist found on the streets of Manhattan unharmed. Found by some unknown individual and handed to NYPD.
No mention of how Building 7 collapsed. No steel building has ever collapsed at freefall speed right into it's own footprint.

4. Motive
Patriot act drawn up years before 9/11.
Obvious war profiteering.

Look back at the attack on our embassy in Libya. The state department was warned, but chose not to act. Crises, real or staged, have been used historically as propaganda and motivation. This is nothing new.

[Forever_frost]

Keep shucking and ducking there Sparky.

So Bush was either the most brilliant criminal mastermind since Hitler OR he's a retarded monkey who couldn't say nuclear.

Which is it?

[naynay]

Years of piss-poor foreign policy is what mostly caused 9/11. That and failing to act on intelligence.

The neo-cons had plans of going into Iraq way before 9/11 ever occurred. They just needed an excuse.

pilotsfor911truth.org

i'll start my forever_post tomorrow evening and let it run from there.

[Forever_frost]

[Forever_frost]

Actually, an embassy IS US soil. It is sovereign US soil. You didn't know this?

Paying for multiple wars he chose to either continue or start (Iraq was already under the Bush Sofa and AFghanistan is still rolling along. Libya, Egypt and troops stationed in Jordan all his decisions)
Paying for 787 billion in stimulus he DID demand.
Paying for 400 billion in second stimulus he demanded
Bailing out the UAW which cost us Chrysler (owned by Fiat) and GM is only pulling a profit because it's been tax exempt for years.
Expanding the TSA (VIPR units and TSA on buses and trains)
Oh, and your +300k jobs? Didn't take into account the 10% unemployment in Cali they 'forgot' to measure

Want more?

And I'm bored so I'll let you dispute this:

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-numbers/

You don't know of one? Ft Hood shooting? Muslims trying to poison Army water supply in Oklahoma? Another Muslim trying to blow up a resteraunt full of soldiers in Texas? Another terrorist trying to blow up a skyscrapper in Dallas? What about the latest attack on the NY Fed?

How about more? The underwear bomber? The guy who tried to blow up a Christmas gathering in NY? 16 attacks on US embassies across the globe? More?

[4eyedwillie]

Talk to the federal government. Barry added 6 trillion in 4 years and we are at an unsustainable debt load. He also cut defense programs like the missile defense shield (Remember him telling Russia he'd get it done?) and mothballed our space program. How many shuttles are flying now versus when he took office?

How many people are unemployed versus when he took office?

What is the national debt now versus when he took office?

What were our troop levels at when he took office versus now?

How many attacks on US soil happened in the 8 years prior to Obama's reign versus during his presidency?

I'll wait. Let me k now if you need help.

But I'll answer a few of them.
Unemployment- From numbers I've seen he's had a gain of 5.2 million but factor in the the lose of 4.9 million during his first year before any of his policies could take place he's had a net gain of 325,000.

Paying for 2 wars he didn't start.
Paying for the bank bailout which was passed during bushes admin but not fully funded till he took office.
Bailing out the automakers to save jobs took some money but without it he would have lost alot of jobs.
A HELL of alot of pork that was added by both sides.
Paying for TSA
Paying for the Dept. of Home Land Sec.

How many attacks happened under Obama? I don't know of one. A consulate or embassy is not US soil. It enjoys protections and under the Geneva convention the Host country is prevented from entering it BUT the actual property remains the jurisdiction of the host country.
Bush had 1 (arguably 4 separate) attack(s)

[Forever_frost]

Didn't like were that was going huh? Time for some redirection?

Not at all. I'm showing that Obama has increased funding of unconstitutional items while cutting constitutional ones.

And you really don't like when you have to actually put out real numbers do you?

[4eyedwillie]

Talk to the federal government. Barry added 6 trillion in 4 years and we are at an unsustainable debt load. He also cut defense programs like the missile defense shield (Remember him telling Russia he'd get it done?) and mothballed our space program. How many shuttles are flying now versus when he took office?

How many people are unemployed versus when he took office?

What is the national debt now versus when he took office?

What were our troop levels at when he took office versus now?

How many attacks on US soil happened in the 8 years prior to Obama's reign versus during his presidency?

I'll wait. Let me k now if you need help.

Didn't like were that was going huh? Time for some redirection?

[Forever_frost]

Something called scheduled declassification.

And let's not forget the Downing Street Memo that is dated 2002 in which military action in iraq was already planned.

You should probably read that document.

You think Bush slammed planes into the WTC to start a war in Iraq. A country we got no oil from and made no money off of. And somehow kept it all secret for 11 years

[majorownage]

You do know nothing is 'accidentally' declassified, right?

Something called scheduled declassification.

And let's not forget the Downing Street Memo that is dated 2002 in which military action in iraq was already planned.

You should probably read that document.

[Forever_frost]

Since it doesn't specify the force levels the constitution wouldn't be violated. But that's neither here nor there, noone is seriously saying to reduce the manpower that much. But since we don't need as many people now then the extras need to be released into the reserves so they can get back to their families and get on with their lives. I'm sure that if a call for volunteers went out that plenty would sign up.
You want to cut SS fine but I want EVERY single penny plus interest that I put in over the last 34 years.

Talk to the federal government. Barry added 6 trillion in 4 years and we are at an unsustainable debt load. He also cut defense programs like the missile defense shield (Remember him telling Russia he'd get it done?) and mothballed our space program. How many shuttles are flying now versus when he took office?

How many people are unemployed versus when he took office?

What is the national debt now versus when he took office?

What were our troop levels at when he took office versus now?

How many attacks on US soil happened in the 8 years prior to Obama's reign versus during his presidency?

I'll wait. Let me k now if you need help.

[4eyedwillie]

Actually, not true. The country would have to be able to be defended by that one company and one ship. As that's impossible, the Constitution would be violated. And yes, we believe in trimming fat. You cut everything that's not constitutionally mandated such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Foreign Aid, green energy subsidies, bailouts to GM LONG before you consider a single troop cut

Since it doesn't specify the force levels the constitution wouldn't be violated. But that's neither here nor there, noone is seriously saying to reduce the manpower that much. But since we don't need as many people now then the extras need to be released into the reserves so they can get back to their families and get on with their lives. I'm sure that if a call for volunteers went out that plenty would sign up.
You want to cut SS fine but I want EVERY single penny plus interest that I put in over the last 34 years.

[Forever_frost]

You do know nothing is 'accidentally' declassified, right?

[majorownage]

Drink more water

Paul O'Neill claimed this in the book "The Price of Liberty," and he was Bush's appointed Secretary of Treasury. This dude was CEO of the RAND corporation and long time republican. For some reason he was dismissed from office after only 1 year. Why would he be if he had real problems with the administration? He had much to gain to go along with the rest of his cronies.

Some proof that was accidentally declassified. Took me forever to find an actual picture. 99% of the links to the documents were dead, even the "internet time machine" sites.

[Forever_frost]

What does the navy need more ships for? Any war we have is going to be a land war not a sea war. Plus I bet quite a few of the 60 ship difference is in either small craft or transport ships. Small craft don't make diddly squat difference in our war fighting ability. Transports other than what the marines use to base their expeditionary units on are pointless now too. In 1917 we didn't have aircraft to transport our people to the war area, now we do.

As for the not being able to fight two wars at once it seems we've been doing fairly well for the last 10 years with that many.

If we're not fighting two wars why do we need the extra troops? Isn't it a sacred republican mantra that fat needs to be trimmed in business? And that it's all about making a profit? Well get rid of some of the troops that we don't need since Iraq is basically done and same some money.
And before you bring up that the military is constitutionally mandated sure it is, but I'm sure that the force levels aren't in the constitution. As long as there's one company of troops and one ship the constitution is satisfied. Should it be that low hell no but it would be constitutional.

Actually, not true. The country would have to be able to be defended by that one company and one ship. As that's impossible, the Constitution would be violated. And yes, we believe in trimming fat. You cut everything that's not constitutionally mandated such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Foreign Aid, green energy subsidies, bailouts to GM LONG before you consider a single troop cut