As requested: Racr's thread.

[racrguy]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove that God doesn't exist. The most I've ever got in return is, "Well, show me where He does!"

That's about as much as I expect anyway.

That's the great thing about the burden of proof. I don't have to do a single thing to prove you wrong, as it's your obligation to prove you right. Which, if the response you get is "Well, show me where He does!", you obviously haven't done. Default stances are fucking awesome, you might try them some time.

What you're doing is akin to charging someone with a crime, with no evidence, then requiring the defendant prove their innocence.

[Denny]

That's the great thing about the burden of proof. I don't have to do a single thing to prove you wrong, as it's your obligation to prove you right. Which, if the response you get is "Well, show me where He does!", you obviously haven't done. Default stances are fucking awesome, you might try them some time.

What you're doing is akin to charging someone with a crime, with no evidence, then requiring the defendant prove their innocence.

Actually, we'll both be going back and forth since we're in the same boat. This could go on forever, but I only see one side of this discussion going that long

I say God exists. Prove me wrong.

You say God doesn't exist. You want me to prove you're wrong.

I really don't require proof, as my statement is faith-based. You require proof, but since you take a stance that God doesn't exist, where is the proof you require for you to come to your original conclusion?

[exlude]

Actually, we'll both be going back and forth since we're in the same boat. This could go on forever, but I only see one side of this discussion going that long

I say God exists. Prove me wrong.

You say God doesn't exist. You want me to prove you're wrong.

I really don't require proof, as my statement is faith-based. You require proof, but since you take a stance that God doesn't exist, where is the proof you require for you to come to your original conclusion?

Proofs are a means of science. Science only deals with the natural. The concept of deities is supernatural. Proofs do not apply on either side. So your argument is pedantic, and merely a logical fallacy to comfort yourself. There, argument is finished

[Denny]

Yet you cannot use your science to disprove or prove God's existence? Yep, sounds like this discussion is over.

[racrguy]

Yet you cannot use your science to disprove or prove God's existence? Yep, sounds like this discussion is over.

The discussion ended as soon as you admitted that you've got no proof to justify your active belief and said that it was faith based. The fault lies with you, not us.

But cool strawman you've built there. No one is saying god doesn't exist, just that your position hasn't justified itself to the point that would instill rational belief.

[exlude]

Yet you cannot use your science to disprove or prove God's existence? Yep, sounds like this discussion is over.

Derp, that's what I just said. Science can't disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster either! Great consolation, I know

[exlude]

And lmao at "your science". Instant anti-intellectual resignation.

[racrguy]

Derp, that's what I just said. Science can't disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster either! Great consolation, I know

Prove to me that Russell's Teapot doesn't exist!

And lmao at "your science". Instant anti-intellectual resignation.

Little does he know that "your science" has allowed him, and will continue to allow him to do everything that he does and will ever do.

[quikag]

I hope you've spent as much time truly reading and evaluating the Bible as you do refuting and attacking believers because if you're wrong, you are unlikely to appreciate the consequences. If believers are wrong, then I guess we just disappear into nothingness at death.

You remind me of the Pharaoh in Exodus.

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Eph 4:18

[racrguy]

I hope you've spent as much time truly reading and evaluating the Bible as you do refuting and attacking believers because if you're wrong, you are unlikely to appreciate the consequences. If believers are wrong, then I guess we just disappear into nothingness at death.

I've read and evaluated the bible and found that it's full of horseshit. Cool attempt at Pascal's Wager, bro. What if you're wrong about the many thousands of "gods" that came before your god? You're an atheist to all of those gods, I just go one god farther.

You remind me of the Pharaoh in Exodus.

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Eph 4:18

You falsely assume that I was not at one time a believer.

"One scientific mishap, and hours later I'm sewing a costume. Déjà diddly vu. Okay, world, better hang on to your hat... Here comes Alpha!" Alpha Big Time 1 #.01

[quikag]

I didn't assume anything beyond what I've read in this thread. I'm sorry to see you are disillusioned with the Bible and God. I hope the same intelligence and wit that evaluated the Bible and determined it to be false carries you far in this life and whatever lies beyond.

By the same token, I will pray you come back around. If you don't, then I guess that is your choice as God gave you free will whether you acknowledge Him or not.

[4.6coupe]

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010418.htm

Does Josephus' documentation mean nothing? He was there and wrote about what was happening during Jesus' time here on earth and when He appeared alive again on the 3rd day.

[racrguy]

I didn't assume anything beyond what I've read in this thread.

Yes you did, by equating me to the Pharaoh and saying that I was ignorant about god is assuming that I was at one time not a believer.

I'm sorry to see you are disillusioned with the Bible and God.

Well alright then.

I hope the same intelligence and wit that evaluated the Bible and determined it to be false carries you far in this life and whatever lies beyond.

"...I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage

By the same token, I will pray you come back around.

You can pray. I'll think.

If you don't, then I guess that is your choice as God gave you free will whether you acknowledge Him or not.

With the attributes given to god in the bible, free will is an illusion.

[Maddhattter]

http://www.keyway.ca/htm2001/20010418.htm


Does Josephus' documentation mean nothing? He was there and wrote about what was happening during Jesus' time here on earth and when He appeared alive again on the 3rd day.

Josephus' work is not being ignored, as the academic community has determined the reference your source is referring to is most likely a fake, added to Testimonium Flavianum by Eusebius or Origen.

Who added that reference to Jesus to Josephus' works is the only thing being debated at the moment.

Also might want to note that even your source notes that Josephus was born in 37CE. This would have been a few years after the supposed death of Jesus. So, he couldn't have been there, let alone write about Jesus' death and Resurrection.

[quikag]

Yes you did, by equating me to the Pharaoh and saying that I was ignorant about god is assuming that I was at one time not a believer.

Pharoah was far from ignorant of God. He just chose to to believe in himself and his power more than God. It took several plagues and finally the death of his own son before he determined the losses were too great and let the Israelites leave. Of course, he soon forgot, and chased after them to basically lose his entire army.

"...I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage

This is my point about the Pharaoh in a nutshell. You choose to believe in yourself over God or anything else. Pharaoh also believed in himself, actually he thought of himself as a god. Very familiar to what you believe obviously. You are the master of your own domain. Good luck with that.

You can pray. I'll think.

Funny, so you imply here that anyone who prays doesn't think? You truly believe you are smarter than all the theologians and even those atheists who eventually came around (C.S. Lewis being a strong example) over the last several centuries?

With the attributes given to god in the bible, free will is an illusion.

Unfortunate for you if that's the case. I guess you're on the side that will spend eternity burning in hell since God didn't deem you one of the chosen. Of course, if it's all hogwash, you have nothing to worry about as you'll just cease to exist upon your death.