Ronald Reagan: Worst president ever?

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Reagan pretty much dealt the death blow to communism worldwide, so naturally the liberals hate his guts. Just about anywhere you go you can see some liberal fairy hating on reagan.

[Denny]

For the record, I still don't fully understand why a flat tax is a bad idea. The only valid argument I've heard is that it could hurt the poor drastically.

I have family that is poor (income wise) and I'd hate to see them under more stress. These are not bad people, just what you may consider simple. They are the poster-picture for the American worker.

Anyway, I don't see why the government can't function off the tax percentage that the poor can afford and that tax be universal. In my opinion, our fat government is really pathetic and causes most of these issues.

The best way to approach it in the fairest of manners is to get an honest median of the nation's incomes and base it off of that. If it works out to the total taxed income being less than what we currently bring in, then we adjust our government's operation to fit what the people give, not vice versa.

[ceyko]

Even at a lower percentage, some are still paying more than the majority of the country makes total.

For the record, I still don't fully understand why a flat tax is a bad idea. The only valid argument I've heard is that it could hurt the poor drastically.

I have family that is poor (income wise) and I'd hate to see them under more stress. These are not bad people, just what you may consider simple. They are the poster-picture for the American worker.

Anyway, I don't see why the government can't function off the tax percentage that the poor can afford and that tax be universal. In my opinion, our fat government is really pathetic and causes most of these issues.

[Denny]

I don't agree with most of what that dude is saying in this thread. However, I don't see where he said the rich should pay more. I got the impression he was saying via their lawyers, accountants and utilizing loopholes/deductions they are able to pay less percentage wise then the middle class.

Even at a lower percentage, some are still paying more than the majority of the country makes total.

[Denny]

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

The problem with this, is that it promotes "The more success and money you make, the more you will be penalized." What is wrong with a flat tax and everyone chips in equally to keep this country alfoat? Honestly, how can anyone blame the rich for getting special treatment? I mean they are, after all, pulling more than their share.

[ceyko]

Why does a rich person deserve to pay more percentage wise than you or me? Considering the rich pay 50% of the taxes in the US. I dont care if you are poor or not. Poor people should pay taxes as well.

I don't agree with most of what that dude is saying in this thread. However, I don't see where he said the rich should pay more. I got the impression he was saying via their lawyers, accountants and utilizing loopholes/deductions they are able to pay less percentage wise then the middle class.

[KungFuHamster]

Why does a rich person deserve to pay more percentage wise than you or me? Considering the rich pay 50% of the taxes in the US. I dont care if you are poor or not. Poor people should pay taxes as well.

then they would be paying for their own social services

[8mpg]

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

Why does a rich person deserve to pay more percentage wise than you or me? Considering the rich pay 50% of the taxes in the US. I dont care if you are poor or not. Poor people should pay taxes as well.

[Gargamel]

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

Flat tax.... most conservatives support it... try selling it to a Democrat...

So now you are arguably down to one very debatable point: Taxes....
While people were generally making coin hand over fist in all sectors....

and you still say he was a BAD president?

Here's an even handed link going over the pros and cons of Reaganomics and its actual effects:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/Reaganomics.html

[Avery'sDad]

...

I'll give you the other arguments, but I don't get thinking it's right to overtax the middle class in order to help the rich. Not talking about the making 200,000 rich. I'm talking the insanely rich who already circumvent the tax system as it is. These people didn't get that way by hard work and sacrifice. You've got to be greedy and malicious in order to obtain that kind of wealth. If I have to pay 30% of my paycheck to taxes then they should as well, period. Not asking for a free ride. Just think it should be fair across the board. And then to have a president that changes the system to further increase the separation between the working and middle class from the insanely rich is a bad thing IMO.

[Gargamel]

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

Wasting... whatever....

SDI was a BIG reason why we currently have an operational Missile Defense System

Much of the research done in SDI was the backbone of the current National Missile Defense program, restarted by Clinton if I remember correctly.

Without SDI, we wouldn't have one....

Much of the research specifically assisted SM-3 Ground Based and Aegis Navy Systems as well as the current Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) System for the Army and CONUS Defense.

Yep, Lots of waste.....

[The King]

Reagan also restored respect for the U.S. in the world, respect that's now largely gone.

Stupid liberal pricks like this O.P. don't know shit about even our recent history.

[Broncojohnny]

Maybe not the worst president, but it certainly sounds like the bad by far outweighs the good.

Good

. Ended the cold war



Bad

. Raised the deficit faster than any other president. More than tripled
the national debt. In order to win the cold war and possibly spare the lives of millions of people

. More appointed officials were indicted and convicted of crimes than
under any other president.

. Gave chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein. Because Jimmy Carter backed the wrong side in the Iranian revolution. Obama is possibly doing the same thing today

. Claimed that trees cause most pollution.

. Iran-Contra. Involved violating federal law by trading in war materiel
with the Iranians and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money. In order to win the cold war and possibly spare the lives of millions of people

. Reagan's tax restructuring (massive cuts in 1981, followed
by tax increases in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987)
transferred tax burden from corporations and the wealthy to
the middle class and, especially, the working class poor. Big fuckin deal, the freeloading poor in this country don't pay shit for taxes and the rich are tired of carrying them. This isn't a negative unless you are a fucking socialist

. Granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants.

...

[BP]

.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

I think it was justified the first time one of Saddam's SCUDs were shot down before they hit Israel. Basically it neutered him and has kept other tyrants like Kim Il Jong in check for years. Not counting all the other benefits we've had from the program, many of which are classified.

How safe would you feel without defense missiles if someone like Hugo Chavez started testing long range missilies? All of our carrier groups would be vulnerable to attack and we probably wouldn't have the badass laser guided weapons we have today.

[Avery'sDad]

Maybe not the worst president, but it certainly sounds like the bad by far outweighs the good.

Good

. Ended the cold war



Bad

. Raised the deficit faster than any other president. More than tripled
the national debt.

. More appointed officials were indicted and convicted of crimes than
under any other president.

. Gave chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein.

. Claimed that trees cause most pollution.

. Iran-Contra. Involved violating federal law by trading in war materiel
with the Iranians and the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

. SDI. Reagan spent billions on the boondoggle of
an "anti-missile shield". Which, incidentally, violated
the ABM treaty, in addition to wasting a lot of money.

. Reagan's tax restructuring (massive cuts in 1981, followed
by tax increases in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987)
transferred tax burden from corporations and the wealthy to
the middle class and, especially, the working class poor.

. Granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants.