P-51 Crashes !!

[Grape]

motor racing kills people, that's why it's called a sport, not excercising... fucking pussies. Edit, on a side note this kinda like trying to blackmail batman. Do you really wanna go to court with people who play with $3,000,000 airplanes, they will eat your young in court............

Bullshit.

Complete bullshit.


Why do the family members of a dead person feel entitled to $25MM?

True or false: The victims were there of their own accord?

True or false: The victims, while watching an unlimited class air race, knew of the inherrant risk of the activity and of being near it?

WTF happened to personal responsibility?


$25 million lawsuit filed in Reno air race crash

Honestly, IMO, the pilot was to blame since the plane hadn't been tested before the race. Where it goes from there, well.. Lives were lost.

[mstng86]

yea, that is total bullshit.

[Alex]

Fuck them and the plane he crashed in

[Strychnine]

Bullshit.

Complete bullshit.


Why do the family members of a dead person feel entitled to $25MM?

True or false: The victims were there of their own accord?

True or false: The victims, while watching an unlimited class air race, knew of the inherrant risk of the activity and of being near it?

WTF happened to personal responsibility?


$25 million lawsuit filed in Reno air race crash

LAS VEGAS — The family of a Texas man killed when a racing aircraft crashed into spectators in the National Championship Air Races in Reno filed a $25 million lawsuit Tuesday against the pilot's family, a mechanic on the World War II-era aircraft and the Nevada organization that hosted the event.

The lawsuit filed in Collin County, Texas, is believed to be the first stemming from the Sept. 16 crash of pilot Jimmy Leeward's P-51D Mustang during air races at Reno-Stead Airport. Eleven people died, including Leeward, 74, of Ocala, Fla. At least 74 were hurt.

"Some people say this was an accident," said Houston-based attorney Tony Buzbee, who filed the civil liability lawsuit on behalf of Dr. Sezen Altug, a physician and widow of dead spectator Craig Salerno, and their two children, ages 6 and 8. "But it seems to me the formula that they created made an accident inevitable."

Leeward's son, Kent Leeward, declined comment on the lawsuit, which names Texas-based mechanic Richard Shanholtzer Jr., the Reno Air Racing Association, another Leeward son, Dirk Leeward, Leeward Racing Inc. and family corporations in Florida, and Aeroacoustics Inc., an aircraft parts maker in Washington state.

Reno Air Racing Association chief executive Michael Houghton said he hadn't seen the lawsuit but offered "condolences to the families and fans that were affected by this devastating tragedy."

"We fully expect a number of lawsuits to be filed," Houghton told The Associated Press. "This is the first."

Shanholtzer and an Aeroacoustics official did not immediately respond to messages.

Salerno, 50, of Friendswood, Texas, was a dispatcher for Continental Airlines and a lieutenant for a volunteer fire department who also volunteered at an annual Houston air show and was an avid racing pilot. He attended the Reno event with a friend who was hospitalized with critical injuries after the crash.

Speaking for Salerno's family, Buzbee said in a telephone interview that no amount of money could fix the "huge gaping hole ripped from their lives."

The attorney said he wanted to hold "two groups of wrongdoers" accountable: "Those who pushed the limits of physics on the plane, being risk takers and reckless without regard for the people who might be watching them, and those who promoted and profited from hosting the show."

Buzbee also raised questions about the independence of the National Transportation Safety Board investigation, pointing to evidence that the Reno-Tahoe Airport Authority has lobbyists in Washington with ties to the NTSB. Neither the airport nor the federal investigative board was named in the lawsuit.

"A NTSB investigation should not be subject to the efforts of lobbyists," Buzbee said in an Oct. 25 letter to Howard Plagens, the chief NTSB investigator in the Reno crash. "Who will be the lobbyist for the victims?"

NTSB officials did not immediately respond Tuesday to messages seeking comment.

Records show the Reno airport authority paid $62,000 in 2011 to three Washington lobbying firms — Gephardt Group, Porter Group and Akerman, Senterfitt & Eidson — to handle transportation funding issues before Congress. Gephardt Group is headed by former Democratic House majority leader and presidential candidate Dick Gephardt of Missouri. Former Nevada Republican Congressman Jon Porter heads the Porter Group.

Airport spokesman Brian Kulpin acknowledged that one of the airport's lobbyists hired Peter Goelz, a senior executive at the O'Neill and Associates in Washington and former NTSB official, as a consultant "to interpret the NTSB process."

"There is no lobbying taking place in regards to the air race crash issue at all," Kulpin said. "They're seeking guidance in the NTSB investigation process."

NTSB findings have not been made public and a ruling on the cause of the crash is pending.

Board officials said last month that while investigators found no readable onboard video amid the debris of the crashed aircraft, technicians were still trying to extract information from an onboard data memory card from Leeward's plane.

Leeward was a veteran movie stunt pilot and air racer who competed at the Reno air races since 1975. He said in interviews before the air races that that he hoped modifications to the aircraft he named "The Galloping Ghost" would help win the championship.

The fateful flight was captured on photos and video by hundreds of spectators, and a NTSB board member said investigators found a piece that apparently fell off the tail of as it went out of control.

Photos showed a tail part known as an elevator trim tab missing as the plane climbed sharply, then rolled and plunged nose-first at more than 400 mph into box seats on the tarmac in front of the center of the grandstands. Dead and injured people were scattered widely, but there was no fire.

[jason07]

That's an interesting read. I guess I was under the impression that the Galloping Ghost had been modified the way it was the day of the crash and had been racing like that for years, I guess not.

[aggie97]

I guess I sort of called the blackout...sad all around though.

As for the surprise about not testing....I see it ALL too often in our road racing series. I would say at least 1/2 the field of 120 cars gets prepped in the week before the race and never tested. People who pay shops to get their stuff done are the worst as they expect the shop to be on the ball. Most of the time, the shop knows they have till Day X to get it done and wait till the last minute to get it done, usually scrambling for parts or half assing something together. I have seen fires, suspension failures, engine failures and more all costing the driver the weekend and a lot of money, sometimes even a whole car if it gets written off.

Basically, if you aren't 100% sure it's ready, you made the mistake of testing it live!

[blownragtop]

Odd, given the history of the aircraft, that they would be so casual about modifications. When the fuselage tanks were introduced, Mustang pilots were ripping the tails off trying to dogfight with full tanks. Hence the SOP that the article mentions of emptying that tank first.

[blownragtop]

Essentially they modified the aircraft without conducting a thorough flight evaluation. The aircraft was inherently unstable and when the plane encountered turbulence the pilot lost control leading to a sudden climb. That maneuver caused the pilot to experience a g-induced black out.

Kind of pisses me off, that they hadn't done any testing on this aircraft before entering it in a race with a large crowd of spectators nearby. It really hits home considering I could have been in that crowd that day.

[ceyko]

Sad about his friends and anyone else who died there. At least the pilot never knew what happened.

I'm not real good at understanding all the terms. I can definitely research though if no one wants to explain. What I'm getting out of it, was that it was technical a pilot error that caused him to black out - after a perfect storm of problems?

[racrguy]

It's a sad deal for sure, but I'm glad there's no knee jerk reaction to it canceling all of the air races.

[Strychnine]

Update posted on another site, cant find a link to verify though.

More Galloping Ghost analysis

Good News for the future of air racing.

Our new crew member, Matt Jackson, is not only a race pilot, aircraft business owner, and aircraft owner (he also takes care of Tom Cruise's P-51), but he is also the VP of the Unlimited Racing Class and head of the Safety Committee.

We had a long talk about the Reno crash on the way to Mojave today.

Matt believes the cause of the crash was due to The Galloping Ghost having a CG too close to the aft limit which resulted in pitch instability. There are instructions on the P-51 regarding no combat missions with the aft fuel tank full resulting in an aft CG problem. Instructions specify to empty the aft fuel tank first in flight.

During qualifying Matt watched Galloping Ghost from inside the cockpit of Furias and could not believe how much trouble Leeward was having in keeping the Ghost in a stable pattern around the course.

Since Leeward lives in Florida and the Galloping Ghost was modified for racing in Calif., when Leeward picked up the Ghost for the Reno races at the last minute, a complete flight test program had not been done based on available information.

There is a video of the entire last lap of the Ghost before the crash which Matt showed me. As Leeward was coming around pylon #8 at about 480 mph after passing Rare Bear, he hit turbulence which pitched his left wing down, Leeward corrected with hard right rudder and aileron. Just as the aircraft was straightening out, he hit a second mountain of turbulence which caused the tail to 'dig in' resulting in a 10+G climb rendering Leeward unconscious instantly and resulted in the tail wheel falling out (broken tail wheel support structure was found on the course). As the Ghost shot upward the LH aileron trim tab broke loose. This can be heard on the tape, so the trim tab did not cause the accident.

Since the Ghost was racing at 480 mph with full right rudder and the stick full right, this is where everything stayed when Leeward blacked out.
Cockpit camera film that was salvaged from the wreck shows Leeward slumped over to the right in the cockpit. As a result, the Ghost climbed up and to the right, rolled over on her back, and then headed for the box seats. Most in the box seats never saw it coming because it came in from behind them.

Matt has had long conversations with the NTSB who call the accident a 'fluke'. They are not going to recommend canceling future races. He has also talked to the insurance companies covering the races for Reno and they also say they are not going to cancel their coverage of future races. Now we wait for the FAA to make a decision.

Ironically, Matt bought box seats tickets for his good friends who stayed with him for a few days before the races. They were the husband and wife who were killed.

Thank You for choosing
Bobby's Aero Services
1641 Sessums Dr .
Redlands , Ca 92374
(909)534-7675

[CJ]

Losing the trim tab itself has no affect on the flyability of a plane. It's what happens to the elevator when you lose the trim tab. The only thing the trim tab does is keeps the elevator at a certain angle to relieve control pressures for a certain airspeed.

At 450KIAS, the nose down trim would be substantial. So that means the elevator is at a pretty extreme (relatively) down angle and the trim tab is keeping it in place. Now imagine losing the trim tab at that point. The elevator would violently go from down to at a minimum, aligned into the wind. This would make the aircraft pitch up violently. The instantaneous G would be enough to make a 70-year old G-loc IMO.

exactly what I think happened. And the idea of him trying to pull up was just the planes lift on the wings at that speed, he probably wasn't even there for the crash.

[helosailor]

Losing the trim tab itself has no affect on the flyability of a plane. It's what happens to the elevator when you lose the trim tab. The only thing the trim tab does is keeps the elevator at a certain angle to relieve control pressures for a certain airspeed.

At 450KIAS, the nose down trim would be substantial. So that means the elevator is at a pretty extreme (relatively) down angle and the trim tab is keeping it in place. Now imagine losing the trim tab at that point. The elevator would violently go from down to at a minimum, aligned into the wind. This would make the aircraft pitch up violently. The instantaneous G would be enough to make a 70-year old G-loc IMO.

No argument there, you're right on the money. I may have misspoken myself a little. On most aircraft (fixed and rotary wing), the trim tab is so small in relationship to the control surface that the loss of one is barely noticeable at best. They are what they are, tabs to trim (fine tune) the control surface in question. The P-51 (or at least that P-51) had trim tabs that were huge in comparison to the rest of the control surface. That dramatic of a change in control surface area would be a huge problem.