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  • Originally posted by CWO View Post
    wut?

    EDIT: This is not me taking a stance, just posting information


    First, let’s start by reviewing the basic facts that support the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis that legalized abortion in the 1970s explains a substantial part of the crime decline in the 1990s:

    1) Five states legalized abortion three years before Roe v. Wade. Crime started falling three years earlier in these states, with property crime (done by younger people) falling before violent crime.

    2) After abortion was legalized, the availability of abortions differed dramatically across states. In some states like North Dakota and in parts of the deep South, it was virtually impossible to get an abortion even after Roe v. Wade. If one compares states that had high abortion rates in the mid 1970s to states that had low abortion rates in the mid 1970s, you see the following patterns with crime. For the period from 1973-1988, the two sets of states (high abortion states and low abortion states) have nearly identical crime patterns. Note, that this is a period before the generations exposed to legalized abortion are old enough to do much crime. So this is exactly what the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts. But from the period 1985-1997, when the post Roe cohort is reaching peak crime ages, the high abortion states see a decline in crime of 30% relative to the low abortion states. Our original data ended in 1997. If one updated the study, the results would be similar.)

    3) All of the decline in crime from 1985-1997 experienced by high abortion states relative to low abortion states is concentrated among the age groups born after Roe v. Wade. For people born before abortion legalization, there is no difference in the crime patterns for high abortion and low abortion states, just as the Donohue-Levitt theory predicts.

    4) When we compare arrest rates of people born in the same state, just before and just after abortion legalization, we once again see the identical pattern of lower arrest rates for those born after legalization than before.

    5) The evidence from Canada, Australia, and Romania also support the hypothesis that abortion reduces crime.

    6) Studies have shown a reduction in infanticide, teen age drug use, and teen age childbearing consistent with the theory that abortion will reduce other social ills similar to crime.

    These six points all support the hypothesis. There is one fact that, without more careful analysis, argues against the Donohue-Levitt story:

    7) The homicide rate of young males (especially young Black males) temporarily skyrocketed in the late 1980s, especially in urban centers like Los Angeles, New York City, and Washington, DC, before returning to regular levels soon thereafter. These young males who were hitting their peak crime years were born right around the time abortion was legalized.

    If you look at the serious criticisms that have been leveled against the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis, virtually all of them revolve around this spike in homicide by young men in the late 1980s-early 1990s. (There are also some non-serious criticisms, which I will address below.) This is the point that Sailer is making, and also the point made far more rigorously by Ted Joyce in an article published in the Journal of Human Resources.

    So, a reasonable thing to ask yourself is: Was there anything else going on in the late 1980s that might be causing young Black males to be killing each other at alarming rates that might be swamping the impact of legalized abortion over a short time period? The obvious culprit you might think about is crack cocaine. Crack cocaine was hitting the inner cities at exactly this time, disproportionately affecting minorities, and the violence was heavily concentrated among young Black males such as the gang members we write about in Freakonomics. So to figure out whether this spike in young Black male homicides is evidence against legalized abortion reducing crime, or even evidence legalized abortion causes crime, one needs to control for the crack epidemic to find the answer. This is the argument that I have been making for years. First in the Slate exchange with Steve Sailer back in 1999, then in the Donohue and Levitt response to Ted Joyce, and now in a recent paper by Roland Fryer, Paul Heaton, me, and Kevin Murphy.
    More here: http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/a...d-you-believe/



    Here's the actual study: http://www.nber.org/papers/w8004.pdf
    The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime
    John Donohue, Steven Levitt

    NBER Working Paper No. 8004
    Issued in November 2000
    NBER Program(s): CH LE PE

    We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

    And since this is a picture thead:



    Before presenting regression results, Figures IVa-IVc show simple plots of log-changes in crime rates between 1985 and 1997 against the change in the state-level effective abortion rate over that same time period.
    The three figures correspond to violent crime, property crime, and murder respectively. In each case, there is a clear negative relationship between crime changes over the period 1985-1997 and abortion rates in the years immediately following Roe v. Wade
    The fitted population-weighted regression lines are also included in the figures. The R2 from these simple regressions range from .12 (murder) to .45 (property crime), as reflected in the relatively tighter fit of the regression line for the latter crime category.
    Last edited by Strychnine; 08-31-2017, 11:00 AM.

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    • On a lighter note

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      • Interesting. I honestly appreciate your thoroughness.

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        • Dang, Matt. I certainly couldn't have explained that better, lol.

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          • Matt be all like:
            "It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

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            • Originally posted by Gasser64 View Post
              First one was from when the kid could even be there without the parents.

              Without fear of some molester or some other deranged sicko.
              Child molestations and kidnappings were far worse in 1960 than today, believe it or not.
              "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." -Benjamin Franklin
              "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." -Alexander Fraser Tytler

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              • Originally posted by CJ View Post
                Child molestations and kidnappings were far worse in 1960 than today, believe it or not.
                Is that percentage wise? With the increase in population and moral decline, have the numbers really gone down to below that of the 1960's? Or is that like an "adjusted for inflation" type of thing?
                WH

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                • Originally posted by Gasser64 View Post
                  Is that percentage wise? With the increase in population and moral decline, have the numbers really gone down to below that of the 1960's? Or is that like an "adjusted for inflation" type of thing?
                  Most of these things are measured as numbers per thousand. Most forms of cancer have also been in a steady decline since the 1920s when data first started being collected. This is all in spite of the hysteria that some people buy into. Lung cancer is the obvious exception.
                  Originally posted by racrguy
                  What's your beef with NPR, because their listeners are typically more informed than others?
                  Originally posted by racrguy
                  Voting is a constitutional right, overthrowing the government isn't.

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                  • Originally posted by Strychnine View Post
                    got damn that is funny

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                    • Originally posted by Gasser64 View Post
                      Is that percentage wise? With the increase in population and moral decline, have the numbers really gone down to below that of the 1960's? Or is that like an "adjusted for inflation" type of thing?
                      Good old days syndrome rears its ugly head. The world wasn't all like Mayberry back in the day. Belief that the good 'ol days were so much better tracks with media exposure. It sounds worse now because there are infinitely more ways to hear about what sucks.

                      You think a 40 year old man in 1950 spent his day with 24 hour access to instantaneous news? Fuck no. He read the paper in the morning, worked all day, smacked his wife around a little and ignored his 2.3 kids. Depending on his ethnicity he might spend part of that day looking for a water fountaim he could use.

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                      • i can assure you the good old days were better. those of you who did not get to live the 50's got screwed . hell i lived american graffiti and it was awesome .

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                        • Originally posted by bubbaearl View Post
                          i can assure you the good old days were better. those of you who did not get to live the 50's got screwed . hell i lived american graffiti and it was awesome .
                          Sounds fun, but are you sure that doesn't have more to do with age than decade? I don't know about the 90's for you, but I had a blast.

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                          • Originally posted by BLAKE View Post
                            Sounds fun, but are you sure that doesn't have more to do with age than decade? I don't know about the 90's for you, but I had a blast.
                            It was good for me as well!

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                            • Originally posted by CJ View Post
                              Child molestations and kidnappings were far worse in 1960 than today, believe it or not.
                              Can't believe that for a second now that the world has become globally connected.

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                              • we had rock and roll , cool cars and cheap burgers . rounded out with wolfman and it dont get much better .

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