Wildcat Wildness - the .50 Hush Puppy

[CJ]

And that is retained energy. Aerodynamics won't be the same across bullet weights in the same caliber. A fast bullet will lose velocity, but a heavy bullet will not lose it's inertia nearly as fast.

Heavier (longer) bullets have better drag coefficients. So they not only retain more energy, they have less parasitic loss due to drag. They also maintain stability better. And lastly, they are less affected by variables such as humidity, and wind. That's one of the reasons most all of your long range shots are taken with a .50bmg round - it's easier because the projectile is less affected by the environment.

But what you're saying is correct, subsonic rounds drop like a brick.

[CJ]

Here's a chart showing drop rates for a .300BLK round. The drop rate is nuts. However, take a look at the energy and velocity retention. At 100 yards it loses just 26fps and 26ft lbs - almost nothing at all. At 4 times the range it loses just 95fps and 88ft lbs but has 220.3" of drop, or about 18 feet hold over. However, that doesn't mean anything if your ballistics are very consistent, which this table clearly shows. Drop is easily adjustable, so the round is very accurate even at longer ranges, and has great energy delivery for subsonic, and amazing velocity retention.

| 0 1000 0.0000 488 -2.5 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 50 986 0.1500 475 +3.2 0.0 0.00 4.3 -17.7 -6.10 1.64
X 100 973 0.3030 462 +0.1 0.5 0.50 17.5 0.0 0.00 3.31
| 150 960 0.4585 450 -12.3 1.5 0.95 40.0 +23.0 +7.92 5.01
| 200 948 0.6162 439 -34.2 2.8 1.36 72.0 +47.7 +16.41 6.74
| 250 937 0.7758 429 -65.8 4.5 1.74 113.7 +73.3 +25.21 8.48
| 300 926 0.9371 419 -107.2 6.5 2.08 165.2 +99.5 +34.22 10.25
| 350 915 1.1000 409 -158.7 8.8 2.40 226.8 +126.1 +43.39 12.03
| 400 905 1.2642 400 -220.3 11.3 2.70 298.4 +153.1 +52.67 13.83
| 450 895 1.4313 391 -292.9 14.3 3.03 381.1 +180.9 +62.23 15.65
| 500 885 1.5989 383 -375.7 17.4 3.32 474.0 +208.8 +71.82 17.49
| 550 876 1.7690 375 -469.8 20.9 3.64 578.2 +237.3 +81.63 19.35
| 600 867 1.9412 367 -575.4 24.9 3.96 693.9 +266.4 +91.63 21.23

[ThreeFingerPete]

Here's a thought experiment:

You are on the mound at rangers stadium with a bucket of balls. For each one you make in the strike zone you get $100. For each one that fails, you pay $1.

Before you accept the challenge, you have to choose what balls to throw. You have a choice of golf balls or ping-pong balls. Which to choose?

I understand, but you are using balls that are physically almost the same size, with much different weights. I'm not discounting the merits of a very aerodynamic bullet, I'm only saying that once the velocity drops, gravity is going to take more of an effect and the bullet will start dropping. Of course, since drop is very predictable and wind drift is much less so, that's not a big problem, but it does have to be accounted for.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Heavier (longer) bullets have better drag coefficients. So they not only retain more energy, they have less parasitic loss due to drag. They also maintain stability better. And lastly, they are less affected by variables such as humidity, and wind. That's one of the reasons most all of your long range shots are taken with a .50bmg round - it's easier because the projectile is less affected by the environment.

But what you're saying is correct, subsonic rounds drop like a brick.

Yes, I understand the relationship between aerodynamics, mass and velocity fairly well.

With that said, I want one of these.

[Bassics]

Is that for the heavy 220gr bullet?

[Bassics]

I understand, but you are using balls that are physically almost the same size, with much different weights. I'm not discounting the merits of a very aerodynamic bullet, I'm only saying that once the velocity drops, gravity is going to take more of an effect and the bullet will start dropping. Of course, since drop is very predictable and wind drift is much less so, that's not a big problem, but it does have to be accounted for.

I was attempting two projectiles relatively close in aerodynamics but with very different weights. It was about the best real-world I could come up with, in context and obvious in the difference.

I think you and I are saying something similar to argue two different points actually. I was saying a heavier bullet will give you more range than a lighter bullet, aero being equal. This is even true if allowing for faster MV of the lighter bullet, assuming the chamber pressure is constant.

Why? Because just like you said, drop is connected to velocity; the ping pong balls slow really fast, although their falling velocity increases at a set rate. The golf balls do not slow nearly as fast.

edit; I think I realize where you are really coming from, which is a heavy will suffer considerable loss in MV vs a light, which could greatly affect the drop curve at a given sight-in. Is that what i was missing from your post?

[ThreeFingerPete]

I was attempting two projectiles relatively close in aerodynamics but with very different weights. It was about the best real-world I could come up with, in context and obvious in the difference.

I think you and I are saying something similar to argue two different points actually. I was saying a heavier bullet will give you more range than a lighter bullet, aero being equal. This is even true if allowing for faster MV of the lighter bullet, assuming the chamber pressure is constant.

Why? Because just like you said, drop is connected to velocity; the ping pong balls slow really fast, although their falling velocity increases at a set rate. The golf balls do not slow nearly as fast.

A bullet having twice the velocity will suffer from four times the drag of its slower counterpart, so it's no surprise that it loses much of that velocity so quickly. So while having a slower initial MV, the heavier bullet retains much of its energy due to inertia and the greatly reduced effect of drag on it's slower velocity.

So yes, the initial statement that subsonic rounds have a lot of bullet drop is true, but it's a very predictable variable.

[Bassics]

Sure, not disagreeing with that. I just said a heavier bullet will outrange a lighter one, which is something different but following the same principles.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Sure, not disagreeing with that. I just said a heavier bullet will outrange a lighter one, which is something different but following the same principles.

I guess I don't follow your statement then. Of course a bullet with better aerodynamics and more mass will reach out better than a bullet that loses its advantage quickly after leaving the barrel.

[CJ]

But what about a bullet with a small rocket inside it?

[ThreeFingerPete]

But what about a bullet with a small rocket inside it?

Does it have cropped ears?

[Bassics]

I'm sorry. You said a subsonic bullet retains crazy energy but does not fly flat. I read it in context of your and CJ's previous posts as "a heavy bullet retains crazy energy but does not fly flat". It was my misinterpretation. Subtle but important.

That led me to comment that a heavier bullet will outrange a lighter bullet, aero being equal. Which it will, but that didn't apply in the context you were talking about.

[ThreeFingerPete]

I'm sorry. You said a subsonic bullet retains crazy energy but does not fly flat. I read it in context of your and CJ's previous posts as "a heavy bullet retains crazy energy but does not fly flat". It was my misinterpretation. Subtle but important.

That led me to comment that a heavier bullet will outrange a lighter bullet, aero being equal. Which it will, but that didn't apply in the context you were talking about.

It's all good, I knew what you were saying, I just didn't see how it related.

[CJ]

Does it have cropped ears?

Cropped ear bullets. Standard ears cause excessive drag, and in long range they can cause tumbling, and keyholing. So it would definitely have cropped ears for optimal energy retention and accuracy.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Cropped ear bullets. Standard ears cause excessive drag, and in long range they can cause tumbling, and keyholing. So it would definitely have cropped ears for optimal energy retention and accuracy.

FWIW. I tried to call Delta Company. Looks like 4-6 months for one of their barrels. I wonder who else would make one.