2012 DFWMustangs.net AR-15 lower group buy

[udrandman]

probably not the best group to commit grand larceny on.

I don't know, we all have fewer ARs to hunt you down with!

[soap]

Hey CJ. if you do end up having too send the money orders back. Please do not endorse mine. At my store my cash office manager said she can cash mine in. If not endorsed.

Also have an idea. Instead putting you through all that trouble. How about we use a different vendor. And just send you the difference? ????

[bigmuskie]

Hey CJ, I just picked up some parts from Chuck Ross at rossgunworks.com. I mentioned to him about the GB fallout and he is interested in seeing what he can do to make this GB a go. He manufactures his own lowers, guessing that's where the FFL SOT comes into play? Anyhow, maybe you or Jeff can call him and see what kind of deal can be made. His number is 469-628-6340.

[soap]

Hey guys check this out... in the THF. One of the members got a reply from surplus ammo.

He's talking shit. I can't copy now. But it's on the hunting froum. He said he never talked to Cj..

[bigshoe]

Hey guys check this out... in the THF. One of the members got a reply from surplus ammo.

He's talking shit. I can't copy now. But it's on the hunting froum. He said he never talked to Cj..

What is THF? Do you have a link?

[SAAsales]

This is Dylan at Surplusammo.com. I've already sent this in response to the member of your forum that emailed me about this situation. And no, I don't know who "CJ" is. We know Jeff Dowdle at livetoshoot or at least that is the name of the contact that did the order from last year and tried to place this order this year. If it seemed like I was "talking shit" to the guy who emailed me, consider that his email was accusing us of a severely dishonorable thing, a thing I had no knowledge of until he let me know about it. I'm not here to flame that guy, hell I'm grateful to him considering he's the only one to let us know so far that this was going on at your forum. I will explain below. If you've emailed me after his and I haven't responded yet then I apologize, I've been working on this since his email with the link to this forum and thread.


I've read through most of the posts, first three pages, then skipped to livetoshoot's post from yesterday. *He's right about a couple of things, he tried to place the order last week, March 15 and he did text the owner over the weekend once he learned that he couldn't get the pricing he got last year. Beyond that is where it falls apart.

We did give him a wholesale general price list in January at his request, and that's all it was, a request for pricing. *He mentioned last year's large purchase and being "interested in making another purchase" but no time frame, no commitment, no details beyond that. *In response to this email my guy Gary emailed him the then current wholesale price list on Jan. 17th. *His next communication we found was the March 15th email for a quote for the entire order plus shipping stating "I am going to be placing that order probably within the week." *This is the first attempt at a commitment to an order, a request for a quote.

There was no January agreement, period. *We did not have an agreement to a committed quantity for certain products at a certain price. *We emailed a general wholesale price list at his request as a licensed dealer then didn't hear back for two months (Jan. 17 to March 15). *His comment "worked out wholesale pricing on a number of items" is invalid. *There was no agreement, nothing "worked out." *We had no idea of his commitment to any of this, to any of you. *We didn't dangle a price in front of him and then pull the rug out at the last minute. *He/they set up and committed to an unsecured deal. *There was NO order placed with us. *There was no quantity of items secured in a purchase order. *They made a big mistake and are now shifting all blame on us because they think that we have no voice and they are in friendly territory.

He mentions that he "negotiated the pricing with." There was no "negotiation," just the aforementioned request with no communication subsequently until Mar. 15th. His comment "they had enough business for the year" is also wrong. What he was told was that we've sold the entire year's wholesale production of these lowers already. Not parsing terms, what he was told was in reference to the numerical volume of units sold. Wholesale customers had been sending in their purchase orders (PO's) until we had sold the year's production, at which point we stopped accepting new PO's. These are the big, fun numbers a manufacturer deals with in a scary, unique time like this. If he had his PO in line and in time then this problem wouldn't have happened.

Two, whole, months. *In this industry as a scary presidential election is looming and we're seeing order volume not seen since the last pres. election buying panic a lot can and has happened in two months time. *There was no communication with us during the entire time from when they seem to have launched this group buy on your forum up until March 15th. *Before launching this commitment to you all they did not secure anything with us, I cannot stress that enough. *I have all emails from him (livetoshoot), there weren't many. *He first emailed my email (surplusammosales@gmail.com), I forwarded it to Gary in wholesale (surplusammowholesale@gmail.com). *Gary sent him the wholesale price list from that email on Jan. 17th, the next email was a response to this email on Mar. 15th and the string of unfortunate emails that followed.

So, now this guy is throwing us under the bus for his assumption and his mistake? *They are making it out that we reneged on a deal? *There was no deal. *There was no discussion and to re-emphasize this point, there was no deal. *He presumed a static option and that it would be available until he got around to needing it. *He secured nothing. *And because of his mistake he's let down everyone on your local forum so he trashes our good name and let the repercussions be damned, truly a class act.* They made a mistake, presumed all was well and could half-ass a group buy. *They got bit by their laziness and rather than do the honorable thing, they've lied. *However much of our business it kills is just bonus to them, vengeance for the little they've lost.

I do not at all intend to insult your forum if it seems that way in something I've missed, I'm a member of several forums and have participated in a few GB's in my time. *Seriously, why would we do what they claim we did? *To be clear, since he requested that wholesale price list we have had our standard orders for ammo and parts (supply to us) denied/delayed and/or the prices raised for what we could get. *We've had our wholesale customers begin ordering in massively increased volume as they saw fit and it has come to a breaking point. *Because of this spike in demand prices have subsequently gone up, for us and from us. This is happening everywhere in the industry, we are not unique. Maybe they couldn't predict this or at least couldn't predict when. Well, they obviously didn't. What they did do was play fast and loose with your money and time, and our reputation, spending many things that don't belong to them.

So ask Jeff this, Jeff at livetoshoot, if you committed to an order with us, what's your PO number? Don't have one? Neither do we.

[War Machine]

This is Dylan at Surplusammo.com. I've already sent this in response to the member of your forum that emailed me about this situation. And no, I don't know who "CJ" is. We know Jeff Dowdle at livetoshoot or at least that is the name of the contact that did the order from last year and tried to place this order this year. If it seemed like I was "talking shit" to the guy who emailed me, consider that his email was accusing us of a severely dishonorable thing, a thing I had no knowledge of until he let me know about it. I'm not here to flame that guy, hell I'm grateful to him considering he's the only one to let us know so far that this was going on at your forum. I will explain below. If you've emailed me after his and I haven't responded yet then I apologize, I've been working on this since his email with the link to this forum and thread.


I've read through most of the posts, first three pages, then skipped to livetoshoot's post from yesterday. *He's right about a couple of things, he tried to place the order last week, March 15 and he did text the owner over the weekend once he learned that he couldn't get the pricing he got last year. Beyond that is where it falls apart.

We did give him a wholesale general price list in January at his request, and that's all it was, a request for pricing. *He mentioned last year's large purchase and being "interested in making another purchase" but no time frame, no commitment, no details beyond that. *In response to this email my guy Gary emailed him the then current wholesale price list on Jan. 17th. *His next communication we found was the March 15th email for a quote for the entire order plus shipping stating "I am going to be placing that order probably within the week." *This is the first attempt at a commitment to an order, a request for a quote.

There was no January agreement, period. *We did not have an agreement to a committed quantity for certain products at a certain price. *We emailed a general wholesale price list at his request as a licensed dealer then didn't hear back for two months (Jan. 17 to March 15). *His comment "worked out wholesale pricing on a number of items" is invalid. *There was no agreement, nothing "worked out." *We had no idea of his commitment to any of this, to any of you. *We didn't dangle a price in front of him and then pull the rug out at the last minute. *He/they set up and committed to an unsecured deal. *There was NO order placed with us. *There was no quantity of items secured in a purchase order. *They made a big mistake and are now shifting all blame on us because they think that we have no voice and they are in friendly territory.

He mentions that he "negotiated the pricing with." There was no "negotiation," just the aforementioned request with no communication subsequently until Mar. 15th. His comment "they had enough business for the year" is also wrong. What he was told was that we've sold the entire year's wholesale production of these lowers already. Not parsing terms, what he was told was in reference to the numerical volume of units sold. Wholesale customers had been sending in their purchase orders (PO's) until we had sold the year's production, at which point we stopped accepting new PO's. These are the big, fun numbers a manufacturer deals with in a scary, unique time like this. If he had his PO in line and in time then this problem wouldn't have happened.

Two, whole, months. *In this industry as a scary presidential election is looming and we're seeing order volume not seen since the last pres. election buying panic a lot can and has happened in two months time. *There was no communication with us during the entire time from when they seem to have launched this group buy on your forum up until March 15th. *Before launching this commitment to you all they did not secure anything with us, I cannot stress that enough. *I have all emails from him (livetoshoot), there weren't many. *He first emailed my email (surplusammosales@gmail.com), I forwarded it to Gary in wholesale (surplusammowholesale@gmail.com). *Gary sent him the wholesale price list from that email on Jan. 17th, the next email was a response to this email on Mar. 15th and the string of unfortunate emails that followed.

So, now this guy is throwing us under the bus for his assumption and his mistake? *They are making it out that we reneged on a deal? *There was no deal. *There was no discussion and to re-emphasize this point, there was no deal. *He presumed a static option and that it would be available until he got around to needing it. *He secured nothing. *And because of his mistake he's let down everyone on your local forum so he trashes our good name and let the repercussions be damned, truly a class act.* They made a mistake, presumed all was well and could half-ass a group buy. *They got bit by their laziness and rather than do the honorable thing, they've lied. *However much of our business it kills is just bonus to them, vengeance for the little they've lost.

I do not at all intend to insult your forum if it seems that way in something I've missed, I'm a member of several forums and have participated in a few GB's in my time. *Seriously, why would we do what they claim we did? *To be clear, since he requested that wholesale price list we have had our standard orders for ammo and parts (supply to us) denied/delayed and/or the prices raised for what we could get. *We've had our wholesale customers begin ordering in massively increased volume as they saw fit and it has come to a breaking point. *Because of this spike in demand prices have subsequently gone up, for us and from us. This is happening everywhere in the industry, we are not unique. Maybe they couldn't predict this or at least couldn't predict when. Well, they obviously didn't. What they did do was play fast and loose with your money and time, and our reputation, spending many things that don't belong to them.

So ask Jeff this, Jeff at livetoshoot, if you committed to an order with us, what's your PO number? Don't have one? Neither do we.

Tits or gtfo newb!

[udrandman]

Tits or gtfo newb!

That just made me piss my pants.

[TeeShock]

This is Dylan at Surplusammo.com, I am secretly Dan Bishop, GE Project Manager. I got you bitches back but the aids never went away.

[CJ]

This is Dylan at Surplusammo.com. I've already sent this in response to the member of your forum that emailed me about this situation. And no, I don't know who "CJ" is. We know Jeff Dowdle at livetoshoot or at least that is the name of the contact that did the order from last year and tried to place this order this year. If it seemed like I was "talking shit" to the guy who emailed me, consider that his email was accusing us of a severely dishonorable thing, a thing I had no knowledge of until he let me know about it. I'm not here to flame that guy, hell I'm grateful to him considering he's the only one to let us know so far that this was going on at your forum. I will explain below. If you've emailed me after his and I haven't responded yet then I apologize, I've been working on this since his email with the link to this forum and thread.


I've read through most of the posts, first three pages, then skipped to livetoshoot's post from yesterday. *He's right about a couple of things, he tried to place the order last week, March 15 and he did text the owner over the weekend once he learned that he couldn't get the pricing he got last year. Beyond that is where it falls apart.

We did give him a wholesale general price list in January at his request, and that's all it was, a request for pricing. *He mentioned last year's large purchase and being "interested in making another purchase" but no time frame, no commitment, no details beyond that. *In response to this email my guy Gary emailed him the then current wholesale price list on Jan. 17th. *His next communication we found was the March 15th email for a quote for the entire order plus shipping stating "I am going to be placing that order probably within the week." *This is the first attempt at a commitment to an order, a request for a quote.

There was no January agreement, period. *We did not have an agreement to a committed quantity for certain products at a certain price. *We emailed a general wholesale price list at his request as a licensed dealer then didn't hear back for two months (Jan. 17 to March 15). *His comment "worked out wholesale pricing on a number of items" is invalid. *There was no agreement, nothing "worked out." *We had no idea of his commitment to any of this, to any of you. *We didn't dangle a price in front of him and then pull the rug out at the last minute. *He/they set up and committed to an unsecured deal. *There was NO order placed with us. *There was no quantity of items secured in a purchase order. *They made a big mistake and are now shifting all blame on us because they think that we have no voice and they are in friendly territory.

He mentions that he "negotiated the pricing with." There was no "negotiation," just the aforementioned request with no communication subsequently until Mar. 15th. His comment "they had enough business for the year" is also wrong. What he was told was that we've sold the entire year's wholesale production of these lowers already. Not parsing terms, what he was told was in reference to the numerical volume of units sold. Wholesale customers had been sending in their purchase orders (PO's) until we had sold the year's production, at which point we stopped accepting new PO's. These are the big, fun numbers a manufacturer deals with in a scary, unique time like this. If he had his PO in line and in time then this problem wouldn't have happened.

Two, whole, months. *In this industry as a scary presidential election is looming and we're seeing order volume not seen since the last pres. election buying panic a lot can and has happened in two months time. *There was no communication with us during the entire time from when they seem to have launched this group buy on your forum up until March 15th. *Before launching this commitment to you all they did not secure anything with us, I cannot stress that enough. *I have all emails from him (livetoshoot), there weren't many. *He first emailed my email (surplusammosales@gmail.com), I forwarded it to Gary in wholesale (surplusammowholesale@gmail.com). *Gary sent him the wholesale price list from that email on Jan. 17th, the next email was a response to this email on Mar. 15th and the string of unfortunate emails that followed.

So, now this guy is throwing us under the bus for his assumption and his mistake? *They are making it out that we reneged on a deal? *There was no deal. *There was no discussion and to re-emphasize this point, there was no deal. *He presumed a static option and that it would be available until he got around to needing it. *He secured nothing. *And because of his mistake he's let down everyone on your local forum so he trashes our good name and let the repercussions be damned, truly a class act.* They made a mistake, presumed all was well and could half-ass a group buy. *They got bit by their laziness and rather than do the honorable thing, they've lied. *However much of our business it kills is just bonus to them, vengeance for the little they've lost.

I do not at all intend to insult your forum if it seems that way in something I've missed, I'm a member of several forums and have participated in a few GB's in my time. *Seriously, why would we do what they claim we did? *To be clear, since he requested that wholesale price list we have had our standard orders for ammo and parts (supply to us) denied/delayed and/or the prices raised for what we could get. *We've had our wholesale customers begin ordering in massively increased volume as they saw fit and it has come to a breaking point. *Because of this spike in demand prices have subsequently gone up, for us and from us. This is happening everywhere in the industry, we are not unique. Maybe they couldn't predict this or at least couldn't predict when. Well, they obviously didn't. What they did do was play fast and loose with your money and time, and our reputation, spending many things that don't belong to them.

So ask Jeff this, Jeff at livetoshoot, if you committed to an order with us, what's your PO number? Don't have one? Neither do we.

I'm not surprised you don't know who I am. That's exactly what I would expect. I spoke with you last year and went through what I would consider a pretty unprofessional series of unreturned e-mails, requested to send "text messages" to conduct business, and lost pricing quotes among other things. Once we placed the order with you, you gave us 3 different delivery times none of which were honored, eventually the receivers were sent in partial quantities. You did ship the items ordered, but the manner in which you worked with us was fairly unprofessional and haphazard. Not to mince words I was not very impressed. However, you did deliver the product and we worked out the deal. I take responsibility for not finding another vendor and dealing with you the second time with the knowledge of how you conduct business. Everyone can blame that squarely on me.

As for the talk about quote, we are a group buy. Unfortunately me and Jeff do not have the capital to front a $20,000 purchase, we operate off a quote you give us, and then as quickly as I can, I get the funds ready to be sent to you. Now, I understand your explanation. Essentially you're telling me that it's our fault Jeff didn't make the order in full. Considering this is a group buy, that just isn't possible - and I'm sure you know it. This isn't "laziness" as you call it, but reality. You use the phrase "laziness" because you're frustrated at the fact you stuck it to one presumed customer (actually two now, according to another board member who had the same treatment you've given us - but I'm sure that was his fault also), and actually pissed off 100. But that's the only convenient defense you have for why you reneged on the pricing quote. And let's get this clear - you did. The reason you did, explained in less words is you received a considerable amount of orders, and you decided to increase your prices based on the political climate. I happen to work in a similar line of work as yourself, and when I give someone a pricing quote on something, I keep the agreement. If the pricing of the quote I'm giving out changes, I let my customers know about it ahead of time, out of courtesy. I think your attempt to come into this discussion and place every bit of blame on your customer is probably not going to succeed. I assume you don't front the PR department for SA&A. You can use the excuse that it's Jeff's fault for not placing a $20k order in full, and pass it off as you being completely absent of any blame - that's completely within your right as a business, and I respect that. But don't get upset when there are repercussions for those decisions. If your reputation was as important as you seem to believe, why go through the trouble of pointing fingers and honor the pricing agreement, just to show good faith? Throw Jeff and I under the bus, I don't care. But consider the opportunity this is for you to gain some customers in the process. My goal in this group buy is not to win an argument against your company, it's to get the pricing quote we spoke about. If it's me or Jeff's fault that happened - so be it, we take full responsibility for not understanding how you want us to do business with you. But again - as a show of good faith and excellent customer service - honor our small order of AR15 lowers and part's kits and gain a ton of loyal customers. And you know what? If it's just not realistic to honor the pricing you gave us initially, then I'll personally cover the difference if we can come to a slightly higher place, and meet me in the middle. Let's work something out.

[livetoshoot]

Everyone
I don't intend to get in any kind of back and forth with SAA on this forum. The simple facts are they provided a 2012 price sheet to me that had their pricing for 100+ lowers at $45. When we went to make the order they were now only willing to sell them at a price $70. Now, in this same election year market, Palmetto Armory was willing to drop their price by $5 a lower from their quote in January to try and get our business. It was probably a poor decision to try and go with SAA again this year but we were trying to get everyone the best deal possible.

Again I apologize that this didn't go as planned and I will let everyone make their own judgment regarding the situation.

[bigshoe]

Well I was going to order 3 stripped uppers, 3 buffer tube assembilies, gas blocks, tubes and some other random stuff from Surplus ammo, well I had to mix it up between Palmetto and DS Arms, I hate dealing with either of those places because it takes so long for them to ship but, i'd rather wait than deal with Surplus again.

In my opinion (even after reading SAA's post), I think they could of tried to work with us, but it sounds like they just said fuck off. I mean if they supplied their customer with a 2012 Wholesale price list, then they should honor their price list for the WHOLE YEAR of 2012.

Oh well, I'm sure no one here will buy from them again.

[motoman]

Well I was going to order 3 stripped uppers, 3 buffer tube assembilies, gas blocks, tubes and some other random stuff from Surplus ammo, well I had to mix it up between Palmetto and DS Arms, I hate dealing with either of those places because it takes so long for them to ship but, i'd rather wait than deal with Surplus again.

Oh well, I'm sure no one here will buy from them again.

I've ordered 3 different uppers through DSArms and they've made it to my doorstep within 10 days of making the initial purchase online and that was with their standard shipping. I don't know of anyone shipping faster than them.

[bobs94formula]

If it's just not realistic to honor the pricing you gave us initially, then I'll personally cover the difference if we can come to a slightly higher place, and meet me in the middle. Let's work something out.

That is not realistic for you CJ, nor would we expect you to do something like that. IMHO if they would have come back and said "Look our costs have increased, so we need to go up on the price $XX.XX" most of us would have been happy to pay the difference. I'd rather have to go pay full price somewhere else, than to see you pony up the difference to them.

[bigmuskie]

Well I was going to order 3 stripped uppers, 3 buffer tube assembilies, gas blocks, tubes and some other random stuff from Surplus ammo, well I had to mix it up between Palmetto and DS Arms, I hate dealing with either of those places because it takes so long for them to ship but, i'd rather wait than deal with Surplus again.

In my opinion (even after reading SAA's post), I think they could of tried to work with us, but it sounds like they just said fuck off. I mean if they supplied their customer with a 2012 Wholesale price list, then they should honor their price list for the WHOLE YEAR of 2012.

Oh well, I'm sure no one here will buy from them again.

Friend of mine has been waiting 3 months for his upper, and he's still waiting.