Lucky us! 4th amendment just got weaker.

[03trubluGT]

I was speaking about pushing ink.

You mean being a sergeant versus an officer?

[Forever_frost]

Personally I do try to behave somewhat civilized, even on this site - since our online persona is utilized in a variety of ways. As far as I'm concerned you and Treadhead are representatives of Police in general. I personally can see what you're going for most of the time, but a lot of these folks seem to have legitimate gripes about what the police have done to them in the past. (assuming they are telling the whole story)

Generally speaking though, I think a lot of people think cops are okay people. However, it's not the good cops that we're generally worried about. Maybe I should rephrase that so I'm not speaking for others - I am not worried about decent cops. I'm worried about bad cops and especially the politicians and other in their chain of command.

Just my two cents in reference to your comments. You have every right to say what you feel, but don't be surprised when it spins up the FTP'ers.





Sadly, when I was 17 to about 20 or maybe 19 if an NCO or officer said to do just about anything - I'd do it. Also, you have to understand that enlisted and probably officers don't understand all those details. If the command comes to secure an area, I would've done it w/o thought. If it pissed people off and I got shot at and my ROE said to fire back I would've.

However, something extreme like just going into some town and exterminating people would be different. I doubt the lower level units would get the orders like that... It might be a secure perimeter thing or something, but I'd hope that if the order came to destroy the town with small arms some flags would go up. However, it would probably just be bombs (which I don't know how the AF works on stuff like that). However, an unlawful order could be made to seem completely legitimate if desired. Further more, we were often instructed to follow orders first and handle the administrative side of those orders after the fact. (can't think of a specific example at the moment though, generally speaking though we were just dumb-ass kids)

Which is completely AGAINST how us Infantry are taught. You are to ALWAYS compare your orders against the constitution and the law and if they conflict you are to refuse. Immediately. Not after you're done.

[Denny]

Patrol is the backbone of any department. That's where the action is. First responders get to chase the bad guys.

I was speaking about pushing ink.

[03trubluGT]

So it's by choice?

Patrol is the backbone of any department. That's where the action is. First responders get to chase the bad guys.

[Denny]

I'm too young and fit to be riding a desk.

So it's by choice?

[03trubluGT]

Ride out?! I thought you were a desk jockey.

I'm too young and fit to be riding a desk.

[03trubluGT]

You've never given me that offer, but I talked to Jimmy about doing it last summer, but life happened. I've always wanted to.

Come on out. You can take next after Motoman.

[mikec]

Pretty much, but I'm reading that more are leaning toward since it is there, it will be abused on a grand scale.

I have said earlier that one of the most desireable traits that make a good officer is compassion. Being able to fairly enforce the law is a necessity. There is no black and white in my book. Just because you have an offense doesn't mean that you stop investigating and arrest the person for the worst charge you can. You have to take into consideration the totality of the circumstances and look past the superficial information. One must dig to get to the best truth possible. There may be mitigating factors, and you have to realize there are three sides to every story.

More than anything the responses indicate a general lack of trust in law enforcement as a whole. Not necessarily that we really think this will occur, just that the profession as a whole is becoming more and more antagonistic towards the non law enforcement segments of society.

Fwiw, many of us realize that you are NOT one of those who embrace that approach.

[03trubluGT]

Seems like this.

Matt is saying that just because it can doesn't mean it will.

Everyone else is saying that just because it isn't supposed to doesn't mean it wont.

Pretty much, but I'm reading that more are leaning toward since it is there, it will be abused on a grand scale.

I have said earlier that one of the most desireable traits that make a good officer is compassion. Being able to fairly enforce the law is a necessity. There is no black and white in my book. Just because you have an offense doesn't mean that you stop investigating and arrest the person for the worst charge you can. You have to take into consideration the totality of the circumstances and look past the superficial information. One must dig to get to the best truth possible. There may be mitigating factors, and you have to realize there are three sides to every story.

[Denny]

If you draw a line in the sand, you better damn well be prepared to defend it.
A man is nothing if without honor.

I'm still waiting on you to accept the offer to come ride out some day.

Ride out?! I thought you were a desk jockey.

If you draw a line in the sand, you better damn well be prepared to defend it.
A man is nothing if without honor.

I'm still waiting on you to accept the offer to come ride out some day.

You've never given me that offer, but I talked to Jimmy about doing it last summer, but life happened. I've always wanted to.

[03trubluGT]

For fucks sake with the novel. 75% of that doesn't even have anything to do with what I was trying to get across. Nevermind.

If you draw a line in the sand, you better damn well be prepared to defend it.
A man is nothing if without honor.

I'm still waiting on you to accept the offer to come ride out some day.

[Grimpala]

For fucks sake with the novel. 75% of that doesn't even have anything to do with what I was trying to get across. Nevermind.

Seems like this.

Matt is saying that just because it can doesn't mean it will.

Everyone else is saying that just because it isn't supposed to doesn't mean it wont.

Nice tap dance around my challenge. Instead of answering it, you avoided it completely.

The only thing I was doing was playing Devil's advocate saying that it won't be abused like a good number are in fear of. They make it sound like a group of officers will start at the end of a random street and start entering houses on this new and wonderful tool.

I was trying to show them how asinine thier fears are.

I'm 43 years old, and know a LOT of people. I have never had any of my friends or family get searched on the side of the road or had thier door kicked in. I'm not afraid ONE LITTLE BIT of a bunch of JBTs kicking in my door as I have done nothing, nor possess nothing illegal. I don't use drugs that make me paranoid that this will happen.

You are taking WAY TOO MUCH LIBERTY suggesting that I "take a view that is in philisophical circles regarded as highly dangerous to a free society". I do enforce the laws that are in effect, not ones I make up. I believe that this country was established on a document that is irrevocable and not open to interpretation. We have too many rights that have been eroded, but there are instances that we need to modify for the plain fact that the founding fathers could not have forseen the growth of technology as it has been.

I'm not afraid that people are going to discount me, or that I might not win the next popularity contest.

Unbeknownst to you, I still have plenty of business in my PM box regarding tickets, DWI, accidents and a few other topics that I help folks with. While you might think that my chivalrous/Marxist attitudes are a liability, my PMs would suggest otherwise.

If you really think that I'm the closed minded JBT that is only on the job to feed my ego, just ask MireFire 2.0 or Crooner. I helped both of those guys. I wished I could list some others, but confidentiality prohibits it.

Just remember, playing agitator is just that. Playing. Everyone else on the board does it, don't hold me to some imaginary standard because of my occupation. That would be like saying you can have your fun, but you should never, ever make an inflammatory post about a subject that involves your job.

Finally, I still contend that NONE of my previous posts in this thread were factually mistaken, nor should one conclude that I think this ruling is the best thing since sliced bread. I do believe that it has the potential for misuse, but I do hope that they are isolated incidents that do not result in serious bodily injury or death.

For fucks sake with the novel. 75% of that doesn't even have anything to do with what I was trying to get across. Nevermind.

[03trubluGT]

I wouldn't mind that, but getting .50BMG would be a lot easier than the .416

^Fixed.

The smart thing would be to go .50BMG just because of the sheer availabilty and vastly greater load data/tables.