5 point harness = no seat belt ticket?

[HOOCBB]

BTW, I am not a lawyer, so please do not take what I say as legal advice.

Personally, I would not volunteer to test this interpretation in a court. Unless there is already case law in place, I would not want to spend the time and money to test it.

[Tannerm]

Im good then. coppers

Hose jockeys ;D

Techincally a race harness isnt manufacter spec equipment so yes you could receive a ticket. ONLY the cops that ForeverFrost brings to the Back Porch would write you for that let alone stop you. i.e. 99% DONT CARE!

Shoooooot, Id high five you for having TOO much safety equipment!

[HOOCBB]

Not quite. That's for child restraint.

The definition is located in the CHILD PASSENGER SAFETY SEAT SYSTEMS; OFFENSE subsection. Here is where it refers to said subsection from the "Safety Belts; Offense" subsection.

I have bolded where it references the CHILD PASSENGER SAFETY SEAT SYSTEMS; OFFENSE subsection for the definition. DO NOT assume that the title of the subsection means that the definitions ONLY apply to said subsection. That is NOT the case, especially in this instance.

Sec. 545.413. SAFETY BELTS; OFFENSE. (a) A person commits an offense if:
(1) the person:
(A) is at least 15 years of age;
(B) is riding in a passenger vehicle while the vehicle is being operated;
(C) is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt; and
(D) is not secured by a safety belt; or
(2) as the operator of a school bus equipped with a safety belt for the operator's seat, the person is not secured by the safety belt.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) operates a passenger vehicle that is equipped with safety belts; and
(2) allows a child who is younger than 17 years of age and who is not required to be secured in a child passenger safety seat system under Section 545.412(a) to ride in the vehicle without requiring the child to be secured by a safety belt, provided the child is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt.
(b-1) A person commits an offense if the person allows a child who is younger than 17 years of age and who is not required to be secured in a child passenger safety seat system under Section 545.412(a) to ride in a passenger van designed to transport 15 or fewer passengers, including the driver, without securing the child individually by a safety belt, if the child is occupying a seat that is equipped with a safety belt.
(c) A passenger vehicle or a seat in a passenger vehicle is considered to be equipped with a safety belt if the vehicle is required under Section 547.601 to be equipped with safety belts.
(d) An offense under Subsection (a) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $25 or more than $50. An offense under Subsection (b) is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $100 or more than $200.
(e) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the person possesses a written statement from a licensed physician stating that for a medical reason the person should not wear a safety belt;
(2) the person presents to the court, not later than the 10th day after the date of the offense, a statement from a licensed physician stating that for a medical reason the person should not wear a safety belt;
(3) the person is employed by the United States Postal Service and performing a duty for that agency that requires the operator to service postal boxes from a vehicle or that requires frequent entry into and exit from a vehicle;
(4) the person is engaged in the actual delivery of newspapers from a vehicle or is performing newspaper delivery duties that require frequent entry into and exit from a vehicle;
(5) the person is employed by a public or private utility company and is engaged in the reading of meters or performing a similar duty for that company requiring the operator to frequently enter into and exit from a vehicle;
(6) the person is operating a commercial vehicle registered as a farm vehicle under the provisions of Section 502.163 that does not have a gross weight, registered weight, or gross weight rating of 48,000 pounds or more; or
(7) the person is the operator of or a passenger in a vehicle used exclusively to transport solid waste and performing duties that require frequent entry into and exit from the vehicle.
(f) The department shall develop and implement an educational program to encourage the wearing of safety belts and to emphasize:
(1) the effectiveness of safety belts and other restraint devices in reducing the risk of harm to passengers in motor vehicles; and
(2) the requirements of this section and the penalty for noncompliance.
(g) Repealed by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 204, Sec. 8.01.
(h) In this section, "passenger vehicle," "safety belt," and "secured" have the meanings assigned by Section 545.412.
(i) A judge, acting under Article 45.0511, Code of Criminal Procedure, who elects to defer further proceedings and to place a defendant accused of a violation of Subsection (b) on probation under that article, in lieu of requiring the defendant to complete a driving safety course approved by the Texas Education Agency, shall require the defendant to attend and present proof that the defendant has successfully completed a specialized driving safety course approved by the Texas Education Agency under the Texas Driver and Traffic Safety Education Act (Article 4413(29c), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes) that includes four hours of instruction that encourages the use of child passenger safety seat systems and the wearing of seat belts and emphasizes:
(1) the effectiveness of child passenger safety seat systems and seat belts in reducing the harm to children being transported in motor vehicles; and
(2) the requirements of this section and the penalty for noncompliance.
(j) Notwithstanding Section 542.402(a), a municipality or county, at the end of the municipality's or county's fiscal year, shall send to the comptroller an amount equal to 50 percent of the fines collected by the municipality or the county for violations of Subsection (b) of this section. The comptroller shall deposit the amount received to the credit of the tertiary care fund for use by trauma centers.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 30.115(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 316, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 515, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 618, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 910, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1042, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 204, Sec. 8.01, eff. Sept. 1, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 431, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 913, Sec. 4, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 923, Sec. 4, eff. September 1, 2007.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 974, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2009.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1257, Sec. 2, eff. September 1, 2009.

[racrguy]

Imagine how much more strain an adult puts on a seatbelt anchor.

Physics, learn that shit. rite!?

[YALE]

If they deem it safe for children I'd imagine they would be safe for adults.

Imagine how much more strain an adult puts on a seatbelt anchor.

[91CoupeMike]

Not quite. That's for child restraint.

If they deem it safe for children I'd imagine they would be safe for adults.

[racrguy]

Damn, HOOCBB! Good digging!

Not quite. That's for child restraint.

[YALE]

Damn, HOOCBB! Good digging!

[Baron Von Crowder]

That sounds like adding a belt, dot or not, is OK, so long as its worn. It comes up to officers descression and ultimately a judge.

[HOOCBB]

Look at what you just posted. The anchorages to the belts have to be original. That's what I was taught as a vehicle inspector.

EDIT: Most harnesses latch onto anchorage points that aren't original, making them illegal by default. FWIW, you're allowed to have both a harness and seatbelts in the car.

I dug deeper into this and found the definition of "seat belt" in this portion of the code. It even mentions use of safety belts added to the vehicle. I thought maybe this would clear it up a bit, but it still leaves me to question if use of non-OEM belts is legal.

There was a time that I was riding with my cousin in his Jeep (many years ago) and we got stopped for not wearing the seat belts. The OEM belts were still present, but they didn't work, so he had installed lap belts. The officer did not issue a ticket that day since we were in fact wearing seat belts, even though they were NOT the OEM ones.

I would be curious to know if there is case law on this.

FYI, the subsection below was referenced in Sec. 545.413. Safety Belts; Offense.

Sec. 545.412. CHILD PASSENGER SAFETY SEAT SYSTEMS; OFFENSE.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person operates a passenger vehicle, transports a child who is younger than eight years of age, unless the child is taller than four feet, nine inches, and does not keep the child secured during the operation of the vehicle in a child passenger safety seat system according to the instructions of the manufacturer of the safety seat system.
(b) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $25 for the first offense and not more than $250 for a second or subsequent offense.
(b-1) Repealed by Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., 1st C.S., Ch. 4, Sec. 69.01(1), eff. September 28, 2011.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person was operating the vehicle in an emergency or for a law enforcement purpose.
(d) Repealed by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 204, Sec. 8.01.
(e) This section does not apply to a person:
(1) operating a vehicle transporting passengers for hire, excluding third-party transport service providers when transporting clients pursuant to a contract to provide nonemergency Medicaid transportation; or
(2) transporting a child in a vehicle in which all seating positions equipped with child passenger safety seat systems or safety belts are occupied.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Child passenger safety seat system" means an infant or child passenger restraint system that meets the federal standards for crash-tested restraint systems as set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
(2) "Passenger vehicle" means a passenger car, light truck, sport utility vehicle, passenger van designed to transport 15 or fewer passengers, including the driver, truck, or truck tractor.
(3) "Safety belt" means a lap belt and any shoulder straps included as original equipment on or added to a vehicle.
(4) "Secured," in connection with use of a safety belt, means using the lap belt and any shoulder straps according to the instructions of:
(A) the manufacturer of the vehicle, if the safety belt is original equipment; or
(B) the manufacturer of the safety belt, if the safety belt has been added to the vehicle.
(g) A judge, acting under Article 45.0511, Code of Criminal Procedure, who elects to defer further proceedings and to place a defendant accused of a violation of this section on probation under that article, in lieu of requiring the defendant to complete a driving safety course approved by the Texas Education Agency, shall require the defendant to attend and present proof that the defendant has successfully completed a specialized driving safety course approved by the Texas Education Agency under the Texas Driver and Traffic Safety Education Act (Article 4413(29c), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes) that includes four hours of instruction that encourages the use of child passenger safety seat systems and the wearing of seat belts and emphasizes:
(1) the effectiveness of child passenger safety seat systems and seat belts in reducing the harm to children being transported in motor vehicles; and
(2) the requirements of this section and the penalty for noncompliance.
(h) Notwithstanding Section 542.402(a), a municipality or county, at the end of the municipality's or county's fiscal year, shall send to the comptroller an amount equal to 50 percent of the fines collected by the municipality or the county for violations of this section. The comptroller shall deposit the amount received to the credit of the tertiary care fund for use by trauma centers.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 30.114(a), eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 618, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 910, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1042, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 204, Sec. 8.01, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 913, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 913, Sec. 2, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 255, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2009.
Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 1257, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2009.
Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., 1st C.S., Ch. 4, Sec. 69.01(1), eff. September 28, 2011.

[Trick Pony]

Here is how I look at it. Just be cool with the cop and they will prolly be cool with you. If he would to say anything about the harness. Just talk it over with him, but not talking down to the cop. I would hate to use a 5 pt harness for daily use.

Also dont the harness expire? Is it like 3 or so years?

LOL, I'm guessing you're white.

[JETFAST]

Look at what you just posted. The anchorages to the belts have to be original. That's what I was taught as a vehicle inspector.

EDIT: Most harnesses latch onto anchorage points that aren't original, making them illegal by default. FWIW, you're allowed to have both a harness and seatbelts in the car.

Thank You!

5 point saftey harness is for off road use only, and not DOT approved.

[red89notch]

Per the Inspection manual you just have to inspect for presence of seatbelts. It doesn't say a thing about factory or aftermarket.
Also you don't have to inspect for a speedometer. The cop was talking out his ass.

The only thing I can think of is the brake check. The car must stop in a certain distance from 25MPH. If the speedometer is inop then this cannot be properly done and cannot pass.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Also dont the harness expire? Is it like 3 or so years?

The SFI expiration date is more political and Financially motivated than safety.

When the SFI shelf life expires they become ineligible to race at x speeds/time. BUT that doesnt mean they go bad. The harness is sown together just like regular seat belts which have no certification other than OEM DOT and last for years if they arent involved in an accident , high g load stresses , or excessive use.

[STROKD]

Why not keep the stock one and a 5 point? That's what I did. Problem fucken solved.