I didn't think teachers could strike

[Dlachance]

The voucher system is the best way to offset the education system. Currently, when you choose to move your child to private education you must still pay the tax as if your child was enrolled. This enables the government system to become even further corrupted and inefficient as you're paying them for a service they do not provide. The only way to increase government efficiency is to cut it's budget. By using vouchers you remove this tax from the education system, so they have a net loss of revenue - and it forces them to compete with private education. It would strengthen private education as their income stream would increase further.

Another thing to consider is this: who is going to maintain the requirement to go to school and who is going to enforce it? Middle and upper class families will obviously opt to go to a private school while lower clas poor working and poor non-working parents will have to send their kids to the public schools. I understand your voucher arguement, but someone is going to have to pay for them, no? So eventually, when these shitty public union school districts do ot have enough money to stay afloat, who is going to come save them? The tax payers!

[grove rat]

this is what they should teach in school

[Dlachance]

I bet Chicago has a lot of Canadian teachers. Hmmmmmmm? Could that be the problem ?

Fuck off asshole, I'm Canadian.

[Dlachance]

The voucher system is the best way to offset the education system. Currently, when you choose to move your child to private education you must still pay the tax as if your child was enrolled. This enables the government system to become even further corrupted and inefficient as you're paying them for a service they do not provide. The only way to increase government efficiency is to cut it's budget. By using vouchers you remove this tax from the education system, so they have a net loss of revenue - and it forces them to compete with private education. It would strengthen private education as their income stream would increase further.

Okay so I am trying to follow you here. Another ?, say we get rid of the gov in education and do this voucher system. With there no longer being any government involved in education, will there no longer be a requirement to go? If there is a requirement to go, to whom do we answer to; the government? If so, who is going to pay for their oversight to make sure kids are going? Bam, there is the government at our steps once again.

Furthermore, do you think society is willing and prepared to live in a modern world where we are not required to have education?

[FastFox]

I bet Chicago has a lot of Canadian teachers. Hmmmmmmm? Could that be the problem ?

[CJ]

What I am questioning is, how do we go about removing goverment from schools? I am not sure if there are enough "teachers" who are willing to accept lower pay.

The voucher system is the best way to offset the education system. Currently, when you choose to move your child to private education you must still pay the tax as if your child was enrolled. This enables the government system to become even further corrupted and inefficient as you're paying them for a service they do not provide. The only way to increase government efficiency is to cut it's budget. By using vouchers you remove this tax from the education system, so they have a net loss of revenue - and it forces them to compete with private education. It would strengthen private education as their income stream would increase further.

[Whiteboy]

Chicago is a Dump

[Sam88gta1]

DISD is in the same mess. No pay raise going on 4 years now. My girlfriend works in the Admin building for DISD and now knows first hand why education is such a mess. There is ZERO accountability for actions. Fraud cases in DISD go without investigaton due to lack of people needed to investigate. This school year alone (3weeks) they have already reported over $180k in after school tutoring false billing. The tutoring companies recieve only a slap on the wrist and are allowed to continue business as usual. They are not even required to pay the money back!

[CJ]

You didn't say "deserve". But in the instances I'm familiar with, that's what a private school teacher makes, with at or under 3 yrs experience. Which you did state, what private industry pays is what the value is. And I don't agree with it in this instance, but do in many others.

It is a scientific constant. You're missing what I am saying. Because government has intervened the pay for private industry teachers is artificially low. If the entire system was privatized it would not be that low. But in even in lieu of this great divide the children still benefit even with such a great detriment. It further strengthens the concept of privatized education. As far as the "deserve" comment, you said that - and I'm saying that verbiage is anti-capitalist. The capitalist concept is the free and open market will determine value, the same as it does for everything else. The word "deserve" is bringing in social concepts to determine value in lieu of performance, and actual value.

In private schools, the only focus is education for the students. In public schools, it hasn't been about student education in 20 years. It's all about Federal funding. Period. There is no other focus.

That is exactly why you do not want the government teaching our children.

[Dlachance]

PM me her name. I probably know her.

Other than govt overstepping their bounds.

Mrs. Dixon is the name And being Irving, I an promise you she is the only Mrs. dixon there lol

Government overstepping their bounds IS the point of this discussion. So it is here and there, really.

[Dlachance]

Which you did state, what private industry pays is what the value is. And I don't agree with it in this instance, .

I think CJ was right on this point, sir.

[bcoop]

My mother works for Irving ISD Food Service and works in their office. The amount of bullshit the governments pulls is crazy. The new protein requirement is 2oz. Per portion, 2 fucking ounces, yet you have to have 2 breads and 2 fucking cups of vegetables or fruit, per plate. How much of that is going to get wasted? Yeah.

PM me her name. I probably know her.

As for nutrition requirements - They've been getting more strict each and every year. The school can't control what students throw away. But to receive their funding, they have to prove that what they provided was within the requirements. That's neither here nor there, really, in regards to this thread. Other than govt overstepping their bounds.

[bcoop]

I'm not saying that. When you go into "deserve" you're removing yourself from the capitalist system.

You didn't say "deserve". But in the instances I'm familiar with, that's what a private school teacher makes, with at or under 3 yrs experience. Which you did state, what private industry pays is what the value is. And I don't agree with it in this instance, but do in many others.

What exactly is the focus of education, students or teachers? It's something you have to ask yourself.

In private schools, the only focus is education for the students. In public schools, it hasn't been about student education in 20 years. It's all about Federal funding. Period. There is no other focus.

[Dlachance]

The reason that example is a problem is because government runs education in this country. Whenever government intervenes into private industry there is three things that are constant. Quality drops, expenses increase, and government expands. There is no competition because you can't compete against government. Private schools are a business, and the teachers are paid what can be sustained in a capitalist system. This is why people have been trying to enact vouchers for the longest time. The pay of a particular occupation in the private industry is the true measure of the value of that occupation. Since government doesn't have to make a profit, and does not "fail" using government as the standard for valuation of an occupation is inherently flawed.

But, to further reinforce this constant - Which offers higher quality education - private, or government education?

Edit- and to answer your question, I would never put a child of mine in publix education. Fuck that noise

Im mostly in agreeance with you. The government should never have been in education in the first place. The whole system is a mess. My mother works for Irving ISD Food Service and works in their office. The amount of bullshit the governments pulls is crazy. The new protein requirement is 2oz. Per portion, 2 fucking ounces, yet you have to have 2 breads and 2 fucking cups of vegetables or fruit, per plate. How much of that is going to get wasted? Yeah.

What I am questioning is, how do we go about removing goverment from schools? I am not sure if there are enough "teachers" who are willing to accept lower pay.

[CJ]

Private offers better education, by leaps and bounds, but for varying reasons. #1 reason is there is no standardized testing. So the students learn material, rather than memorizing a test. You know, ACTUAL education.


You can't sit there and convince me that teachers, the ones who shape and mold the futures of tomorrow's leaders deserve to make $24,000/yr with no benefits like 401k and insurance (in reference to your vaulation comment). And yes, parents should be the ones shaping and molding the futures of their children. But let's be realistic. In the majority of cases, they aren't. And that's not only present in poverty stricken areas. That's among all classes of people.

I'm not saying that. When you go into "deserve" you're removing yourself from the capitalist system. I am saying private industry works, it has always worked. I have faith that it will work. What I was saying is the pay for private industry teachers are artificially low because of government intervention. The quality of education is higher for private schools, yet the teachers make half the wages. What exactly is the focus of education, students or teachers? It's something you have to ask yourself. Without government intervention teachers in a private system would make considerably more, because you would remove an absolute ton of wasteful spending. The capitalist system is the best determination of the value of an occupation. If you're worth more than you're paid then someone will steal you away and pay you that. Government introduces unnatural aspects to an economic system where people can and are paid more than they are truly worth because the entity in itself cannot fail. It is not required to produce results or risk bankruptcy. I'm not saying teachers are overpaid - I do not know what is true. But what I do know is if it was private industry they would truly be paid their value. Teachers would be paid more based on their abilities and not their time on the job.