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Audi board member out, Porsche board member out.
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Originally posted by davbrucas -
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What a mess. Now it's not isolated to engines in the US.
Europe's carmakers caught up in VW storm
The fallout from the Volkswagen emissions scandal continued to spread across Europe Thursday as regulators found the German giant had also cheated on tests in Europe as well as the U.S. and other carmakers were caught up in speculation about further manipulations.
Billions of euros have been wiped off Volkswagen's value following the revelation that the company had used software to change its diesel engines' performance under U.S. test conditions.
On Thursday German Transport Minister told reporters that similar dodges have been carried out on VW engine test in Europe. "We have been informed that also in Europe, vehicles with 1.6 and 2.0 liter diesel engines are affected by the manipulations that are being talked about," Dobrindt told Reuters, adding that random tests would be carried out on other manufacturers' models.
Shares of German auto maker BMW (XETRA: BMW-DE) dropped sharply in mid-morning trade Thursday after a German newspaper claimed its diesel engines were "significantly" exceeding regulatory limits. Auto Bild - a publication owned by Axel Springer - said Thursday in an exclusive report that BMW engines were emitting nitrogen oxide levels that were 11 times more than the current limit set by the European Union. Citing road tests by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT), it said that a model of the BMW X3 was emitting more poisonous gases than the Volkswagen car that is currently at the center of the emissions scandal. "All measured data suggest that this is not a VW-specific issue," Peter Mock, the Europe Managing Director at the ICCT, told the publication.
BMW shares were 5 percent lower by a round 10:30 a.m. London time after the report was published. This came as other European auto makers were enjoying a bout of buying after several sessions of declines. Volkswagen shares were trading higher by 5.4 percent on Thursday morning. In a statement , BMW said the carmaker did not "manipulate or rig any emissions tests. We observe the legal requirements in each country and adheres to all local testing requirements. When it comes to our vehicles, there is no difference in the treatment of exhaust emissions whether they are on rollers (eg. test bench situation) or on the road."
"We are not familiar with the test mentioned by Auto Bild concerning the emissions of a BMW X3 during a road test. No specific details of the test have yet been provided and therefore we cannot explain these results." The company added that the ICCT had confirmed that the BMW X5 and 13 other BMW vehicles tested complied with the legal NOx requirements.
The scandal has raised fears that it could be a industry-wide issue with several major companies having exposure to the same diesel technology. On Thursday El Pais reported that VW's Spanish subsidiary, SEAT, had installed over 500,000 of the tampered diesel engines into its vehicles since 2009. In an email to the Spanish newspaper, Seat admitted to having "equipped some vehicles with the Volkswagen Group's EA189 engines," but would neither confirm nor deny this figure.
Volkswagen's supervisory board is due to meet Friday to discuss a successor to former CEO Martin Winterkorn, who stepped down Wednesday. It is also expected to name the executives responsible for the scandal, with media speculation that directors from Porsche, Audi and the company's US division are set to leave. However VW Thursday refused to comment on any management changes.
On Thursday Nordea Asset Management announced that its fund managers were banned from buying VW's stocks and bonds, saying that "the scandal is unacceptable from an investment point of view." JPMorgan auto analyst Jose Asumendi calculated Tuesday that globally VW had 25 percent of engines exposed to diesel technology. BMW and Daimler have 35 percent and 45 percent, he added, with Peugeot having 40 percent.
Mike van Dulken, head of research at Accendo Markets, said that reports of another major carmaker having potentially been 'at it' would hardly come as a surprise. "It begs the question of how 'polluted' the industry will turn out to be," he said in a note on Thursday morning. "Claimed MPG (miles per gallon) figures have been pie-in-the-sky for years and electric cars whilst 'clean' in the emissions sense remain suspiciously/prohibitively expensive and poor ranging."Comment
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Shit like this makes me wish that I had become a combustion engineer like I had originally planed to do.
There are ways to reduce NOx through chamber design but I doubt they would work on a diesel.Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.Comment
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Somewhat on topic:
California recently changed laws, they want to detect from the OBD2 port the ready status of the emissions systems. Problem is, Mercedes never designed the EGR system in the Sprinter Vans to be "ready", so sprinters are now failing cali emission tests, and there is no easy solution. Cali wants Mercedes to fix the computer to make the system ready, but since the trucks are a decade old, Mercedes isnt quick to make a fix. Plus, many of them have EGR issues anyway.
The only "fix" is an aftermarket tuner, and people are passing smog in cali with it, but the tuner itself isnt CARB compliant..."If I asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry FordComment
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NOx production is temperature dependent. Other than eliminating localized hot spots what do you plan to do?Originally posted by svo855 View PostComment
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Sounds like CARB needs to eat a dick on that one. It was compliant when it was built.Originally posted by Baron Von Crowder View PostComment
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Temp AND time dependent. Complete the combustion process before NOx has a chance to form. I do not know how to go about doing that in a diesel.Originally posted by Strychnine View Post
Edit: I forgot that NOx production is also pressure dependent and in a diesel an excess of O also contributes up to a point.Last edited by svauto-erotic855; 09-24-2015, 09:36 AM.Magnus, I am your father. You need to ask your mother about a man named Calvin Klein.Comment
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CEO of VW America out too.Originally posted by davbrucasComment
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Here's the EPA's letter to VW: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/docume...a-09-18-15.pdf
The "switch" senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on various inputs including the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operation, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emission testing for EPA certification purposes.
BTW, I just noticed my unintentional "Smokey" pun in the title of a diesel emissions thread.
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Specifically the guys responsible fior R&D for Porsche and technical development for Audi.Originally posted by slow99 View Post
They're saying VW's head of development might be on the way out also.Comment
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Also if they follow Hyundai's example they'll be paying owners the difference in what the advertised fuel economy was and what it is after the modifications.
Basically owners visit a dealership once a year to document the mileage and Hyundai mails them a debit card for the difference based on local fuel prices and miles driven.
So taking a 2013 tdi Jetta as an example they advertised 39mpg combined. Some preliminary estimates are saying to expect up to a 25% loss in fuel economy after they are modified to comply. For someone that drives as much as I do that'd easily be worth $250 a year for as long as I own the car.Comment
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So if one of these little VW's drove past those road side sniffers, would it set it off and the owner get a ticket/warning in the mail? Never understood how those damn things worked, or if they even did. Maybe only for gas cars???Comment
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