SpaceX just made history.

[mschmoyer]

Do we have a massive welfare state that consumes 2/3rd's of every dollar spent by the government or do we explore the universe.

Same people that want to fix the welfare state sure don't want to turn around and give that money to anything that has to do with "science". "Let private businesses do it" they say.

[svauto-erotic855]

Buying an airplane is expensive. Considering there are still planes in service over 50 years old kind of defeats your point though. Again, when the demand is there, cost will come down because someone will figure out a better way. Until then...

Firefly had the better way pretty much down pat. They dusted off the plans that NASA was working on for a 2nd generation of space vehicles that were going to be used to explore the solar system. The only reason it did not happen was because of a loss of public interest and the rising cost from President Johnsons "Great Society". Great nations have to make a choice at some point. Do we have a massive welfare state that consumes 2/3rd's of every dollar spent by the government or do we explore the universe.

[juiceweezl]

Air planes are made on an assembly line and they are still expensive despite a massive demand for them. Rockets are much simpler than a commercial jet. Changing building techniques and going to a simpler design would drop the cost massively for SpaceX but the engineering cost for the redesign would be massive. The old school rocket engines and the supporting hardware is extremely expensive. It was designed with a cost is no object attitude and was very over built because failure was literately not an option and the project at hand was a race against the clock with no time for even considering changing the direction they were going.

Buying an airplane is expensive. Considering there are still planes in service over 50 years old kind of defeats your point though. Again, when the demand is there, cost will come down because someone will figure out a better way. Until then...

[svauto-erotic855]

Because there isn't enough demand for Wal-mart to sell them. Like so many posts, you have over simplified a ton. Demand will drive this industry when the time is right. Until then, it's big boy toys for those rich enough to play.

Air planes are made on an assembly line and they are still expensive despite a massive demand for them. Rockets are much simpler than a commercial jet. Changing building techniques and going to a simpler design would drop the cost massively for SpaceX but the engineering cost for the redesign would be massive. The old school rocket engines and the supporting hardware is extremely expensive. It was designed with a cost is no object attitude and was very over built because failure was literately not an option and the project at hand was a race against the clock with no time for even considering changing the direction they were going.

[juiceweezl]

Why do you think a fuel tank with a combustion chamber and a nozzle on the end of it (aka a rocket) cost 60,000,000 dollars?

Because there isn't enough demand for Wal-mart to sell them. Like so many posts, you have over simplified a ton. Demand will drive this industry when the time is right. Until then, it's big boy toys for those rich enough to play.

[mschmoyer]

Good points. Agree with all of it.

[svauto-erotic855]

Why are people so happy with their Teslas? Customer satisfaction is through the roof.

Everyone who gets satellites launched by SpaceX seems to be happy (except Facebook) as well. He's launching quickly, and re-launching rockets. Only a matter of time before it becomes economical.

He's also well versed in rocket science, something he did not study originally.

I would call that more than a "hype man".

I never said that people who buy a Tesla are not happy with them. People who buy a Prius are also very happy with them; so much so that there is a South Park episode about it.

I never said that people who are dealing with SpaceX are not happy. I said that the purpose of both companies is to fund Mr Musk ride to Mars; profit is not a factor and it is very unlikely there ever will be one unless it just come from selling the companies stock and that will only net a profit for the seller of the stock.

I call him a hype man because he is selling a dream and is very, very good at doing so. Tesla has never made a profit and is so far away from doing so it is like it is orbiting a far away star. The exact same thing can be said of SpaceX. There is no there there, at the end of the day there is only the dreams of Mr Musk and dreams are the most powerful ideas of all.

Rocket science is not that hard to understand if you have an engineering back ground like I do but I will be the first to admit that the devil is in the details. There is truly nothing new that SpaceX is doing except for trying to reuse a booster. Their designs are a tried and true type that any engineer from NASA in the late 60s would instantly recognize and could work on. Unfortunately those tried and true designs were designed by an engineering team working in a program where cost did not matter and are more complex than they need to be and are very expensive. Why do you think a fuel tank with a combustion chamber and a nozzle on the end of it (aka a rocket) cost 60,000,000 dollars?

[mschmoyer]

From an engineering stand point they were doing fine. What they could not compete with is the cult of personality that is Mr Musk. Just ask yourself how much actual profit SpaceX has generated and if they even have a working plan to generate a profit anytime in the future. Most of the gains in anything Musk has touched since they sold PayPal has simply been from promoting the hell out of it and not from actually selling a product or service. He is a brilliant visionary and hype man and that is about it.

Why are people so happy with their Teslas? Customer satisfaction is through the roof.

Everyone who gets satellites launched by SpaceX seems to be happy (except Facebook) as well. He's launching quickly, and re-launching rockets. Only a matter of time before it becomes economical.

He's also well versed in rocket science, something he did not study originally.

I would call that more than a "hype man".

[Sgt Beavis]

Another launch is scheduled for Sunday. That'll be three flights in 10 days. I think it will also break the record for the most launches in a year by any company.

[svauto-erotic855]

They had money problems because no one would invest in them. Even the original investors pulled out That's a strong indication that the entire industry knows they were not the right path forward.

Do you seriously think you know better than the entire industry? Of course you do...because you are skilled enough to repeat the same dumb shit you hear from the random source of the day.

From an engineering stand point they were doing fine. What they could not compete with is the cult of personality that is Mr Musk. Just ask yourself how much actual profit SpaceX has generated and if they even have a working plan to generate a profit anytime in the future. Most of the gains in anything Musk has touched since they sold PayPal has simply been from promoting the hell out of it and not from actually selling a product or service. He is a brilliant visionary and hype man and that is about it.

[svauto-erotic855]

You know all those Highland Park mucky mucks. Get investors and fire up a competitor.

You do not understand the game being played. Mr Musk is a carnival barker who keeps up the hype to keep the money flowing so he can keep the project going. This is being done to fulfill his dreams and not for profit. The people putting money into the deal expect a profit but it is unlikely there will ever be one. Look at Tesla if you want an example of what I am saying. People are convinced that company is worth just a touch over 61 billion when their total annual revenue is not even 10% of that, they have never made a profit, they do not pay a dividend, and every asset the company owns totals up to about 1/3rd of that. The other 2/3rds (or 40 billion dollars) in value comes simply from Mr Musk selling the hype and as Flavor Flav wisely said "Don't believe the hype".

[mschmoyer]

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that the fuel pump is the most expensive part on the entire rocket and I would simply get rid of it. The system that back fills the fuel tank also cost a ton and can be done away with. The nozzle of the engine get heavy deposits from combustion that have to be removed and the hole the fuel passes through gets eroded. The nozzle also is put under extremely high pressure and temps and at time has to be replaced. The pressure in the open nozzle hits as high as 15,000psi and there is a delicate balance between enough strength while keeping the weight low. The surface area for the pressure to act on is huge.

Super interesting post! Not questioning your idea, just genuinely curious how a rocket engine works, and I know very little.

How can you remove a fuel pump? Don't you need something to pump the fuel? Gravity only works when the engine is burning right? Helium keeps fuel pressurized, but not enough to pump a giant rocket engine is it?

[YALE]

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that the fuel pump is the most expensive part on the entire rocket and I would simply get rid of it. The system that back fills the fuel tank also cost a ton and can be done away with. The nozzle of the engine get heavy deposits from combustion that have to be removed and the hole the fuel passes through gets eroded. The nozzle also is put under extremely high pressure and temps and at time has to be replaced. The pressure in the open nozzle hits as high as 15,000psi and there is a delicate balance between enough strength while keeping the weight low. The surface area for the pressure to act on is huge.

You know all those Highland Park mucky mucks. Get investors and fire up a competitor.

[svauto-erotic855]

Are you saying the fuel pump has to be refurbished every time?

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that the fuel pump is the most expensive part on the entire rocket and I would simply get rid of it. The system that back fills the fuel tank also cost a ton and can be done away with. The nozzle of the engine get heavy deposits from combustion that have to be removed and the hole the fuel passes through gets eroded. The nozzle also is put under extremely high pressure and temps and at time has to be replaced. The pressure in the open nozzle hits as high as 15,000psi and there is a delicate balance between enough strength while keeping the weight low. The surface area for the pressure to act on is huge.

[svauto-erotic855]

I will bite, what is this judgement against Elon about?

Pay Pal took my money so I filed in small claims court to recover it and had their agent in TX served with papers. They did not show up in court so I won. I then filed against them in county court and they did not show up again so I won again and they did not respond to the judgement and did not try to appeal it. Pay Pal only had 9 employees then and all of them were listed in the filings.