Tuners: The good, the bad, the ugly?

[Payingcustomer]

Im getting tuned or re-tuned rather, tomorrow. I hope I have good news to report. $350 for bad news will sting.


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[4king]

I had my ls1 z28 tuned at true street. Sean did a great job, and had my settings down after about 3 pulls.

[AArod]

Sean at true street also tuned my 331 nitrous combo. It is also a sct chip. Idles perfect and is still together.

[Payingcustomer]

Well the results are in and I'm not sure what to make of them. It leaves me scratching my head even more as to what the prior shop did or didn't do. But over all I'll call it a win, at least for tonite. It ran well on the way home but it was raining so I couldn't get on it.
Before I started having emissions issues this year the car made 332 rwhp and 334 ft lb of tq. I'm not sure if this is what happened, but this is what I think happened. I took my car to the tuner who previously tuned it (HPP) and told them that it's not passing emissions and it runs better w the egr unplugged. I was wanting them to fix the egr problem and figure out why I can't pass emissions. I wasnt there when they did the dyno but they called and said that it was down 80 hp but the problem wasn't in the tune, they think it's bad cats. So I was going to come get the car but when I come to get it (it was there two weeks before they had it on the dyno) they talk me into leaving it saying that they will find the issues s d get you to pass emissions. Another four weeks goes by and I'm like screw it, I'm coming to get it. After I get it I popped the hood to unplug the vac line on the egr because I thought they they didn't do anything and it ran better with the egr line unplugged. I drove over there with it unplugged but I connected it back before I left. Anyway when I go to hook it back up I notice that it's already unplugged and they stuck a bolt in it. I also noticed that they unplugged the electrical connector to the egr valve. The check engine light never came on like it did prior when the egr vac line off, so I'm assuming that their fix to my egr problem was to disconnect it, put a bolt in the line, and tell the ecu not to throw a cel. I had new cats put on and it passed emissions with flying colors (way down in all categories) but it wasn't running right. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't good.
I went to a different shop today and on the base pull it made 248 hp (compared to a previous 332) and the tuner said it sounds like it's missing. We get to poking around and we found a burned plug wire. The is where it gets interesting, they replace that wire with one from another car in the shop and he did another pull without any tuning, and it made 302 rwhp and 373 ft lbs. So that's 30 hp less than it used to make but it's making 39 more ft lbs. The new tuners explanation on the difference was the weather. He said that it's basically making the same power as it did when it made 332, it's probably just hotter today is all... I'd buy that maybe if it was down say 10-20 hp and the but 30 seems like a bit much. What about the torque, why did it increase? He said no tuning is necessary and he'd just charge for a diagnostic fee of $150. So I paid the man and went down the block to o'riley's and got plug wire, put it on and drove home.
To sum up my saga I'm pretty sure the burned plug wire was causing the emissions problem and of course the drivability issues. My old shop (HPP) didn't catch the burned wire and they tried to fix the emissions issues by "de-tuning." I think the guy I went to today could've gotten it back up to 332 after a new plug wire but he didn't feel like messing with it.
If it continues to run well I'm going to call it good for now. If it doesn't rain tomorrow I'm going to go to the 1/8 mile test and tune. It can't be any worse than last time when I ran 9.73 73 mph on seven cylinders and 248 hp. Doh..
What's with the torque increase? Which graph looks like it has the better overall tune?



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[LS1Goat]

I'm assuming the new tuner is Andy.

What he told you about the weather is correct. Your first graph was done in December. That's a big difference from a hot humid rainy day in August. Several factors affect torque readings on a dyno. I've never seen two dynos read exactly alike.

Sounds like you got a good deal to me. You spent very little money in the grand scheme of things and found the source of the misfire. May be a tad rich, but it looks good to me. It'll lean out a bit on the street. All that matters is that it runs and drives good. Take it to Northstar on a cool night this fall and see what it does.

[JETFAST]

Thin is what forced me into burning my own chips. Fuckery. I don't openly advertise the fact I burn chips, for alot of reasons. I spend alot of time on my tune ups. More then most. It takes alot on the older stuff. I don't cookie cut tunes, and I rarely use dynos anymore. I tune for the environment, instead of a controlled environment, other then the track, I tune on the street.

I have had issues with know it all types, you guessed it...thinking they know it all. Telling me how it works, and it never does. I have a check list I give my customers, so they can check their own stuff out, to save me time, and their money, so I don't have to deal with the above mentioned issues waisting tuning time sorting out gremlins, and Maintenance issues that could have been taken care of at home, this example a plug wire. Or wrong injectors, bad sensors, or placement of sensors, shoty workmanship, and or the fact, it's 20+ years old, or changed hands a bunch, and the shit is hacked up, and flat worn out.

I tore a guys check up one time. Told him to go buy a chip and figure it like I had to 16+ years ago. Apparently he knew more about it then me. Good Luck! People are proud of their work, even when it's shitty, and unsafe. Guy had an issue with his fuel pump placement next to his muffler, only to tell me my tune "went away" in the middle of an endurance race, and just vanished into thin air. Ya Right.

The tune doesn't go away from the car, the car goes away from the tune. Your issues with the cooling fans and AC can be resolved with a chip tune, a misfire can not.

Sometimes I can be hard to get ahold of, because I am usually on some one else's time and money, track, ect. and it's hard to tune cars when you are fielding tech calls when you have your head in one car, while answering 5 Different calls about five different cars, or people just price shopping. I rarely have time for all that. If some one calls me and doesn't leave a message, that call obviously wasn't important.

It's hard to relate to that, when it's my life, but just someone's hobby. I do this everyday. Not just on the weekends, or when the weather is nice out. I return calls first thing in the morning, or in the evening. When I am at the track, or the dyno, my phone is the least of my worries, as the job at hand, is top priority for the day.

Now everyone with a laptop is a "tuner" these days. Most don't even understand how a motor works, or even built one before.

Sorry for the long rant, just sharing some of my experience's on the subject.

Glad you got your car sorted out.

[Payingcustomer]

I'm assuming the new tuner is Andy.

What he told you about the weather is correct. Your first graph was done in December. That's a big difference from a hot humid rainy day in August. Several factors affect torque readings on a dyno. I've never seen two dynos read exactly alike.

Sounds like you got a good deal to me. You spent very little money in the grand scheme of things and found the source of the misfire. May be a tad rich, but it looks good to me. It'll lean out a bit on the street. All that matters is that it runs and drives good. Take it to Northstar on a cool night this fall and see what it does.

Yeah it was Andy. I wasn't knocking him or what happened, I'm pleased with the out come. I might go to North Star tonite.


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[Rick Modena]

Jet is right, taking care of simple maintenance on your hot rod goes a long way. I don't blame the shop HPP for something you could have done.

[Payingcustomer]

Tuners: The good, the bad, the ugly?

Jet is right, taking care of simple maintenance on your hot rod goes a long way. I don't blame the shop HPP for something you could have done.

The wires aren't that old, one happened to fall on the header, they're Taylor's and are on the long side. I couldn't/didn't see it because the supercharger crap was in the way.
I brought my car to HPP and told them that it's running like crap and it won't pass emissions and I asked them can they fix it. They said yeah bring it in. They had it for nearly two months and In that time all they did unplug the connector to the egr valve and they made it so the cel doesn't come on when it's unplugged. They charged me $150 for that. It took them 3 weeks to do that and all they said was well your problem is not in the tune, we think it's the cats. I was going to take it home at that point but they talked me into leaving it saying that they would get to the bottom of it. Well four more weeks go by and they haven't started on it yet so I called and a girl answered and I told her that I was coming and could thy pull my car out for me. She said hold on one second and put me on hold. When she returned to the line she said that Brad would call me right back. I was like why and she said that he wants to talk to you. So Brad calls back and he says, "we have you a tech appointment set up for you tomorrow to test the cats, don't you wanna take advantage of that?" I said no thank you I'll be on my way. $150 and two months later I left with the same thing I brought.


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[CJ]

yeah on my boosted mustang it would gain a substantial amount of horsepower when it was cool. You can also put some timing back into it and gain even more.

[slowturbocar]

Jet is right, taking care of simple maintenance on your hot rod goes a long way. I don't blame the shop HPP for something you could have done.

No he's blaming them for charging him to fix the problem correctly and not just disconnect a line and shuving a bolt in it and call it "fixed" lmmfgdao. Sounds like the car wasn't ready to be on a dyno either. Every time i take a car there i will spend the better part of the day before going over everything to make sure no issues will pop up. Were usually on the rollers for 1-2 hours and thats letting it cool down between pulls which end up being 4 or so. Get your issues worked out and go back for a retune in cooler weather.

[Cmarsh]

Your torque isn't 375 on the last graph, that's just a spike when he hit it. Also...the 33x hpp graph has a small spike in it at the very end from letting off the clutch. So the pull with Andy is really around 325rwtq.

[Payingcustomer]

No he's blaming them for charging him to fix the problem correctly and not just disconnect a line and shuving a bolt in it and call it "fixed" lmmfgdao. Sounds like the car wasn't ready to be on a dyno either. Every time i take a car there i will spend the better part of the day before going over everything to make sure no issues will pop up. Were usually on the rollers for 1-2 hours and thats letting it cool down between pulls which end up being 4 or so. Get your issues worked out and go back for a retune in cooler weather.

You're correct, it still runs like crap w the egr plugged in.
I didn't take it to them for a "tune." It took it to them to get it passing emissions and to fix the egr problem. It was at several shops prior and no one could find the problem... HPP tuned the car on three other occasions (after new "go fast" parts were installed) so as a last ditch effort I made an appointment with them thinking that they would fix my issues with whatever "tools" that they had on disposal, whether they be a dyno or a mechanic. I told them what my issues were and two months later it came back the same. That wouldn't chap yalls azz? I told them that it was running better with the egr unplugged so maybe they thought I wanted to leave it unplugged? I dunno, I assumed when I told them that that they'd know that I was wanting them to fix the egr issues. The whole situation was one big cluster f, I'd call every couple of weeks to see if there was any progress or if I needed to buy a part and take it down to them or anything. Every time I'd call they'd ask, "now what was it in here for again?" Then they'd say oh manny's not here he'll be back next week or whatever. But at that point I was like why does the tuner have to be there? They already did a dyno pull and told me that the tune wasn't the issue and they'd need to do have a tech look at it. Did the "tech" need Manny there to hold his hand? Anyway, that's enough about that. HPP was ok in the beginning, but now that bridge is burned.
One more HPP story before I go. A couple of years ago they tuned it after I put the blower on. As I was about to pull in my driveway they called and said, "uhh, you forgot your chip." I was like what!? Yeah, they didn't put the chip back in after it was tuned. I had to go back the next day to get it.


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[4king]

Most shops, especially performance shops, hire the help that they can get, or in most cases they pay the same or less than a national repair shop and don't offer the same benefits. It has been my experience that in a situation like yours it is best to have a known mechanic you can trust, instead of relying on a performance shop for your performance car. You have to remember their head technician at the performance shop probably didn't touch your car and it went into the flip it out quick line and their lube tech was basically looking over your car.

As an example, the previous owner of my z28 took it to a highly reccomended LS shop that makes high hp drag cars for his cam and torque converter install. They had the car for 3 months trying to figure out a cold start problem they could never diagnose or tune out. I bought the car cheap with this issue and after a few months I went to change the plugs and replace the mass air flow sensor and found that the throttle body was not tightened to the intake manifold. It was a simple fix but small things can get past even the best shops

Regardless it sounds like the person you took it to this time knows his stuff and didn't even charge you to fix the problem. The new shop treated you right which is all you could ask of them

[slowturbocar]

Most shops, especially performance shops, hire the help that they can get, or in most cases they pay the same or less than a national repair shop and don't offer the same benefits. It has been my experience that in a situation like yours it is best to have a known mechanic you can trust, instead of relying on a performance shop for your performance car. You have to remember their head technician at the performance shop probably didn't touch your car and it went into the flip it out quick line and their lube tech was basically looking over your car.

I completely agree with this which is why i got rid of my employees and im the only one in the shop now,lot less trouble and i dont have to watch them all day long. Most shop that have bad work come out is probably cause of there $10hr tech's they hire and the owner/shop Manager /head tech not checking there work.....