So much for a strike

[Forever_frost]

FT got very quiet when I pulled up reported cases, not hundreds but thousands of reported union violence

[Broncojohnny]

Yea despite the union they manage to make billions a year. The only thing that has been chopped at the fucking knees is management.

Your scenario will never play out in real life. Because despite having piss poor management and bleeding cash out of every hole a railroad will continue to make billions year after year. That's why he bought it. He has said a railroad is the most mismanaged company in the world, but he'd still like to own 2 of them. His play was to plug up some of the holes and watch the money roll in. Not to mention he now owns the coal mines, the coal plants, and the damn railroad that ships the coal lol.

Oh I see you have Buffett's investment strategy all figured out. I can't figure out why he wouldn't buy the other railroads if what you say is true. Or why he didn't buy BNSF 50 years ago for that matter.

[Denny]

I want a union job so I can strike too!

Sorry it didn't work out for you, FT

[Forever_frost]

amazing my friend was hired by SW airlines as a pilot recently. Theyre hiring , AA's in bankruptcy, and what is the difference in the companies ?

like that is even recent news....that SW doesn't use unions

unions at AA got exactly what they wanted, they sucked the host dry during a period of high fuel costs, and an increasingly (well slowly) competitive ticket pricing market.

What is so damn hard to understand about this?

Negoiate your own salary. Worked for me, I got my current employer and new employer in a bidding war and I won over a 25k raise. To which I had honestly been working hard for and deserved for years.

Exactly. If you are an asset they will fight to keep you. If you're a mouthbreather, the unions have to be there to make sure you don't get fired for not doing your job

[futant]

amazing my friend was hired by SW airlines as a pilot recently. Theyre hiring , AA's in bankruptcy, and what is the difference in the companies ?

like that is even recent news....that SW doesn't use unions

unions at AA got exactly what they wanted, they sucked the host dry during a period of high fuel costs, and an increasingly (well slowly) competitive ticket pricing market.

What is so damn hard to understand about this?

Negoiate your own salary. Worked for me, I got my current employer and new employer in a bidding war and I won over a 25k raise. To which I had honestly been working hard for and deserved for years.

[347Mike]

I'm confused... You know well that 98% of the people that post in this section dislike unions. Why do you feel the need to bring back the same dead horse to beat?

[Forever_frost]

Since 1975, the National Institute for Labor Relations Research has collected more than 9,000 reports of union violence. These incidents are recorded and electronically maintained in the Institute’s Violent Event Data File.

The Violent Event Data File is a record of violent events that involved labor union members and/or labor union officials. The file is organized into a list of individual records, with each record summarizing a separate violent event. The information about each of these events is found in articles in magazines, newspapers, television news program transcripts and trade association journals.

[Forever_frost]

Examples of union violence since 1925 include:

2011 - It was reported on September 9, 2011 that members of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) frightened security guards, dumped grain, and vandalized property belonging to EGT, LLC, over a labor dispute. No one was hurt, and no one had been arrested at the time the incident was reported. District Judge Ronald Leighton later issued a preliminary injunction against the ILWU citing their reported behavior.[68]

1997 - On August 7, 1997, teamsters Orestes Espinosa, Angel Mielgo, Werner Haechler, Benigno Rojas, and Adrian Paez beat, kicked, and stabbed a UPS worker (Rod Carter) who refused to strike, after Carter received a threatening phone call from the home of Anthony Cannestro, Sr., president of Teamsters Local 769.[69][70]

1996 - On 19 August, 1996, Australian unionists physically broke into the Australian Parliament & fought Australian Federal Police during the 1996 Parliament House Riot.[71][72]

1993 - Eddie York was murdered for crossing a United Mine Workers (UMW) picket line at a coal mine in Logan County, West Virginia, on July 22, 1993. Like the 1990 NY Daily News strike, criminal charges under the Hobbs Act were declined, with the FBI and Justice Department citing the Enmons case.[73][74]

1990 - on the first day of The New York Daily News strike, delivery trucks were attacked with stones and sticks, and in some cases burned, with the drivers beaten.[2][3][4] Strikers then started threatening newsstands with arson, or stole all copies of the Daily News and burned them in front of the newsstands.[2][3][4] James Hoge, publisher of the Daily News, alleged that there had been some 700 serious acts of violence. The New York Police Department claimed knowledge of 229 incidents of violence. Criminal charges under the Hobbs Act were declined, however, citing the aforementioned Enmons case.[2][3][4]

1986 - During protests by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 1547 against a non-unionized workforce getting a contract, picketers threatened and assaulted workers, spat at them, sabotaged equipment, and shot guns near workers.[75][76] In 1999, the Alaska Supreme Court ruled that the union had engaged in "ongoing acts of intimidation, violence, destruction of property", awarding the plaintiff $212,500 in punitive damages.[75][76]

1984 - Taxi driver David Wilkie was killed by striking miners while driving a non-striking worker during the NUM UK mining strike of 1984-85.[77][78]

1926 - In the context of the 1926 United Kingdom general strike, striking miners derailed The Flying Scotsman on May 10.[79][80]

[Forever_frost]

I'm also guessing FT that you're ignoring the union workers who cut the brake lines on train cars and set fire to and destroyed grain storage cars this year.

Via AP:

Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.

Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m. and smashed windows in the guard shack, he said.

No one was hurt, and nobody has been arrested. Most of the protesters returned to their union hall after cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal, Duscha said.

The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor that’s staffing a workforce of other union laborers.

Thursday’s violence was first reported by Kelso radio station KLOG.

[2011GT]

if i could pay 100.00$ a month where i work for the benefits union members get. i would be all over it.

Ive had pretty good benefits union or not. Only thing that sucks here is the company doesn't currently match 401k contributions. They do have a pension plan however I wont ever get any of that.

Freight train hook me up with job!

[2011GT]

Please point me to where i said "blood suckers", and to where i fingered the union for AAs bankruptcy.

The fact is that the union negotiated a poor contract 10 years ago and had to live with it. I already explained the executive bonus situation. And with the current negotiations the union was negotiating with a weak hand. AA pulled out the bankruptcy card and trumped them. My "unions are out of touch" comment applies here; they should have seen the writing on the wall and didn't, or chose to ignore it.

AA was going bankrupt regardless of the current contract negotiation with the pilots. The current contract situation with the pilots may have been the straw that made the bankruptcy decision for AA. Remember, we are discussing a small event in a long line of events that stretch back for years that all add up to this current bankruptcy. The unions may or may not have been a factor in AAs bankruptcy, but i think that most people see it that way.

AA has high labor costs and the other airlines do not - the other airlines shed their high labor costs in bankruptcy court. AA is about to do the same.

10 years ago it was take it or we file chapter 7. AA labor force took the hit for the better of the company. AA pilots are already at the bottom of the airline pay scale. They said no to the new contract because everybody has their breaking point. Everybody has a bottom dollar where after that they just say fuck it and take their chances. You can't just find another job in this industry. Unfortunately aviation is dying. People don't pay high enough fares to make the airlines money.

Here is a funny joke.
Wanna know how to become a millionair in the aviation industry?
Start off with a billion. LOL

[beaner72]

if i could pay 100.00$ a month where i work for the benefits union members get. i would be all over it.

[mikeb]

Mikeb


So by your logic if the union gives back concessions to help the company out in their time of need it's the unions fault for negoitating a bad contract and they are to blame. But when they try to negotiate a decent contract then they are blood suckers and are the reason the company is bankrupt. Makes sense to me.

Please point me to where i said "blood suckers", and to where i fingered the union for AAs bankruptcy.

The fact is that the union negotiated a poor contract 10 years ago and had to live with it. I already explained the executive bonus situation. And with the current negotiations the union was negotiating with a weak hand. AA pulled out the bankruptcy card and trumped them. My "unions are out of touch" comment applies here; they should have seen the writing on the wall and didn't, or chose to ignore it.

AA was going bankrupt regardless of the current contract negotiation with the pilots. The current contract situation with the pilots may have been the straw that made the bankruptcy decision for AA. Remember, we are discussing a small event in a long line of events that stretch back for years that all add up to this current bankruptcy. The unions may or may not have been a factor in AAs bankruptcy, but i think that most people see it that way.

AA has high labor costs and the other airlines do not - the other airlines shed their high labor costs in bankruptcy court. AA is about to do the same.

[FreightTrain]

Mikeb


So by your logic if the union gives back concessions to help the company out in their time of need it's the unions fault for negoitating a bad contract and they are to blame. But when they try to negotiate a decent contract then they are blood suckers and are the reason the company is bankrupt. Makes sense to me.

[helosailor]

If they were going to file bankruptcy anyway, why were offering increases? Unions have no place in business. They are archiac organizations that have mob like structures and employ similar tactics to get their way. You don't want to join? Then maybe your tires get slashed. Want to work and walk through a picket line? Then maybe you get your knees broken

Truth

LOL stop watching movies from the 50s. I guess your going to tell me next that vegas is still ran by the mob too.

Violence against non-union members/line crossers has occurred as recently as 2005 (Northwest Airlines AMFA strike), and probably even more recently than that. Some strikers ran a busload of replacement workers off the road, some strikers assaulted a replacement worker in a restaurant, etc, etc, etc.

My dad was a scab for newspapers. When they went on strike they called his team in and ran the place. At quite a few places they couldn't leave the building since the strikers were violent.

^^more proof.


Back in 2005, Northwest Airlines went through a similar situation as AA. They were already on the verge of bankruptcy anyway and AMFA decided they didn't like NWAs generous-considering-the-state-of-the-company offer, soooo, they went on strike. Oh, but all of those guys that had been paying $58 a paycheck in dues were soon to find out that their beloved union had no strike fund and had no intentions of negotiating. In other words, they got screwed by their own union worse than they would have been "screwed by the company". At least they would have still had jobs.
NWA declared bankruptcy and eliminated 4400 mechanic positions within the company and cut the average mechanic pay from $46/hr to $32/hr.

Three more quick points to make.
1. I understand that the likelihood of a strike with the railroads is somewhere between slim and none. That still doesn't make exorbitant contract demands right. NO union should EVER demand higher raises/benefit upgrades than what the U.S. workforce average is. To do so always has and always will make them seem like selfish, self-entitled, out of touch prima-donas.

2. When the union supporters speak of "management" not having to make concessions to save a company, they should also do their homework. To say "management" implies that you are referring to every person in any kind of management role. What you really mean to and need to say is "the executives". They are they ones not willing to take any cuts. They are the ones taking big fat bonuses from bleeding companies. The run-of-the-mill managers are frequently forced to take pay freezes.

3. Want to cut costs? How about the unions start paying their union rep out of union funds and the company not paying them a dime, since most do NOT do the job that the company pays them for (at least in my experience).