So here's a question for the believers...

[racrguy]

It's true. Hard to decipher the words since it is so different from the way we speak nowadays, but the Bible does have any answer I have needed so far......and the ones I couldn't answer, google worked!

Jester, I'm going to try to word this as nicely as I possibly can (I've been described as fishing with dynamite when it comes to these kinds of topics) there are so many things that the bible has absolutely no clue about, nor would it and religion in general have any idea how to answer a great many questions. In short, the bible contains no answers, just claims to knowledge that it doesn't posses.

Hey can I ask u a question

Only if you can spell correctly.

[Jester]

Jester, I'm going to try to word this as nicely as I possibly can (I've been described as fishing with dynamite when it comes to these kinds of topics) there are so many things that the bible has absolutely no clue about, nor would it and religion in general have any idea how to answer a great many questions. In short, the bible contains no answers, just claims to knowledge that it doesn't posses.
.

lol, you're not gonna hurt my feelings because I had these arguments with bible thumpers long long ago. Basically, until you get it, you won't get it. I didn't get it.......now I do. Kinda weird that way.

[racrguy]

lol, you're not gonna hurt my feelings because I had these arguments with bible thumpers long long ago. Basically, until you get it, you won't get it. I didn't get it.......now I do. Kinda weird that way.

What I meant by that was "not sound like a condescending asshole." To address your point, of course someone won't get it until they get it, that's how understanding things works. The difference being, you see answers where there are only vague hyperboles at best. In the bible I have yet to come across a single answer to any question, other than "god done it." How did the universe form? God done it. How did humans in their current form come into existence? God done it. The cognitive dissonance that some people have must be astounding.

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I seriously do not understand how people can believe some of the stuff the bible says when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. It's mind boggling, really.

[Jester]

What I meant by that was "not sound like a condescending asshole." To address your point, of course someone won't get it until they get it, that's how understanding things works. The difference being, you see answers where there are only vague hyperboles at best. In the bible I have yet to come across a single answer to any question, other than "god done it." The cognitive dissonance that some people have must be astounding. How did the universe form? God done it. How did humans in their current form come into existence? God done it.

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I seriously do not understand how people can believe some of the stuff the bible says when there are mountains of evidence to the contrary. It's mind boggling, really.

I feel like I am arguing with myself from 2 years ago. lol

I know, man, sounds retarded. It is what it is.

And i'm not one of these religious assholes that judges others for not believing what I believe. That's not what it is about. Jesus taught love and understanding and to help each other.

[racrguy]

I feel like I am arguing with myself from 2 years ago. lol

I know, man, sounds retarded. It is what it is.

And i'm not one of these religious assholes that judges others for not believing what I believe. That's not what it is about. Jesus taught love and understanding and to help each other.

That's not the only thing he taught. But this isn't an argument, it's a discussion, and I'm not judging you for what you believe, if it seems like that. I'm trying to understand why. What caused the paradigm shift in your thinking? I'm genuinely curious. Whether you can tell me the actual reason why or not remains to be seen, for all we know you may not know the answer yourself, but the question must be asked. (that last part was an assumption on my part, and just as likely to be wrong as it is right.)

[Jester]

That's not the only thing he taught. But this isn't an argument, it's a discussion, and I'm not judging you for what you believe, if it seems like that. I'm trying to understand why. What caused the paradigm shift in your thinking? I'm genuinely curious. Whether you can tell me the actual reason why or not remains to be seen, for all we know you may not know the answer yourself, but the question must be asked. (that last part was an assumption on my part, and just as likely to be wrong as it is right.)

i hit rock bottom. nervous breakdown, suicide, divorce, etc. and then for some unknown reason, i found God. it was when i needed him. i reached out for him. confessed my sins and asked for forgiveness......and i got it. i know it sounds cheesy, but that is it in a nutshell. i never understood it up until then. i don't go to church, but i pray and talk to God every day.
i was willing to sacrifice everything i placed value in at the time to be close to him and i found out what was truly valuable. i know it is extremely hard to understand, and im afraid it willnot make sense to you until it hits you one day. what is funny, is i always looked for god, but i also always thought it was bullshit as well. today, i will look you in the eye and tell you from my deepest depths that what i felt was absolutely real. just trust me on this one......if or when the day comes that you need God and you reach out for him, he will answer you. it may be when a parent or friend dies, or you lose your mind, or you witness something spectacular, or you save someone and become a hero......i dunno how it works. but i tell you this, it will knock you on your ass and open your eyes.

[racrguy]

i hit rock bottom. nervous breakdown, suicide, divorce, etc. and then for some unknown reason, i found God. it was when i needed him. i reached out for him. confessed my sins and asked for forgiveness......and i got it. i know it sounds cheesy, but that is it in a nutshell. i never understood it up until then. i don't go to church, but i pray and talk to God every day.
i was willing to sacrifice everything i placed value in at the time to be close to him and i found out what was truly valuable. i know it is extremely hard to understand, and im afraid it willnot make sense to you until it hits you one day. what is funny, is i always looked for god, but i also always thought it was bullshit as well. today, i will look you in the eye and tell you from my deepest depths that what i felt was absolutely real. just trust me on this one......if or when the day comes that you need God and you reach out for him, he will answer you. it may be when a parent or friend dies, or you lose your mind, or you witness something spectacular, or you save someone and become a hero......i dunno how it works. but i tell you this, it will knock you on your ass and open your eyes.

Fair enough. Looks like stuff is turning around for you, so keep doin' what you're doin'.

[Jester]

Fair enough. Looks like stuff is turning around for you, so keep doin' what you're doin'.

I can only have faith that it is. lol

[Denny]

What Jester is trying to say is that everything makes since once you come to the understanding that God does exist and that there is a perfect plan for everything. That whole "God done it" bit satisfies a lot once you know for a fact that God done it.

[Maddhattter]

What Jester is trying to say is that everything makes since once you come to the understanding that God does exist and that there is a perfect plan for everything. That whole "God done it" bit satisfies a lot once you know for a fact that God done it.

Having taken the reverse path, starting christian and moving away from religion, I agree with this. When you believe in something the "evidence" makes sense. Like with the tooth fairy, if you believe the tooth fairy exists then money being left under your pillow for your expulsed teeth or with Santa, that it all makes sense that presents are left under the tree at christmas, if you believe. When you are looking to support your presupposition, the evidence will fit it.

That's how people like Kent Hovind and Peter Popoff can bleed people of their money and convince them to believe absolutely ridiculous things, like creationism, or prayer water, respectively. All the evidence I've seen indicates they truly believe the garbage they push, and if you watch Kent Hovind's videos you'll get a shining example of how he makes the evidence follow his presupposition rather than following the evidence to a conclusion.

What it doesn't do, is give credence to the assertions. It also stops you from searching for the real answer if you think you already have it. It may provide a lot of feel good but, like candy, but it provides no substance.

Jester, while I'm glad that your life has gotten better, and that you chose not to end it, your story smacks of self-fulfilling prophesy. You stated that you'd been looking for god for years, then you found some vague feel-good that you can associate with god and, boom, confirmation bias kicks in.

I want to make it clear, that I'm not saying that you didn't feel anything, nor am I saying that you don't believe that it's god, but the same phenomena is indicated with near-death experiences. People only have near-death experiences that confirm their own religion, or the dominant religion in the area. In other words, all evidence indicates that we see what we expect to see when our brain is not functioning properly.

The whole problem I have with your conversion story, not that you have anything to prove to me, is that it's nothing more than an appeal to authority(yourself), an appeal to emotion(your emotions at the time being sincere), and an argument from incredulity(you don't know what it was you felt, but instead of saying "I don't know." and trying to find the answer, you just assert your flavor of superstition).

You've stated several times that arguing with Racr is like arguing with yourself a few years ago, and that the "You have to jump to a conclusion for the evidence to look like it fits." argument is hollow, yet you provide nothing more than indication that you are making the evidence fit your conclusion rather than following the evidence to where it leads.

[jasonw_2005]

Jester, I'm going to try to word this as nicely as I possibly can (I've been described as fishing with dynamite when it comes to these kinds of topics) there are so many things that the bible has absolutely no clue about, nor would it and religion in general have any idea how to answer a great many questions. In short, the bible contains no answers, just claims to knowledge that it doesn't posses.


Only if you can spell correctly.

I think in a previous thread you said that you were once a believer and are now an atheist. May I ask what caused u to change.

[Denny]

Having taken the reverse path, starting christian and moving away from religion, I agree with this. When you believe in something the "evidence" makes sense. Like with the tooth fairy, if you believe the tooth fairy exists then money being left under your pillow for your expulsed teeth or with Santa, that it all makes sense that presents are left under the tree at christmas, if you believe. When you are looking to support your presupposition, the evidence will fit it.

That's how people like Kent Hovind and Peter Popoff can bleed people of their money and convince them to believe absolutely ridiculous things, like creationism, or prayer water, respectively. All the evidence I've seen indicates they truly believe the garbage they push, and if you watch Kent Hovind's videos you'll get a shining example of how he makes the evidence follow his presupposition rather than following the evidence to a conclusion.

What it doesn't do, is give credence to the assertions. It also stops you from searching for the real answer if you think you already have it. It may provide a lot of feel good but, like candy, but it provides no substance.

Jester, while I'm glad that your life has gotten better, and that you chose not to end it, your story smacks of self-fulfilling prophesy. You stated that you'd been looking for god for years, then you found some vague feel-good that you can associate with god and, boom, confirmation bias kicks in.

I want to make it clear, that I'm not saying that you didn't feel anything, nor am I saying that you don't believe that it's god, but the same phenomena is indicated with near-death experiences. People only have near-death experiences that confirm their own religion, or the dominant religion in the area. In other words, all evidence indicates that we see what we expect to see when our brain is not functioning properly.

The whole problem I have with your conversion story, not that you have anything to prove to me, is that it's nothing more than an appeal to authority(yourself), an appeal to emotion(your emotions at the time being sincere), and an argument from incredulity(you don't know what it was you felt, but instead of saying "I don't know." and trying to find the answer, you just assert your flavor of superstition).

You've stated several times that arguing with Racr is like arguing with yourself a few years ago, and that the "You have to jump to a conclusion for the evidence to look like it fits." argument is hollow, yet you provide nothing more than indication that you are making the evidence fit your conclusion rather than following the evidence to where it leads.

Your problem is finding a problem with his story.

[racrguy]

I think in a previous thread you said that you were once a believer and are now an atheist. May I ask what caused u to change.

Spelling incorrect, question ignored.

[Maddhattter]

Your problem is finding a problem with his story.

That's what happens when you follow the evidence.

For the record, the proper term you should use is exposed, i.e. "Your problem is exposing the problems with his story.", as I the problems I pointed out are there regardless of whether or not I point them out.

[Denny]

Whatever, bro. Make an argument out of yet another discussion while trying to demean someone. The rest of us will sit here and be adults and respectful.