Muslims

[Gargamel]

So, we're not on worldwide terrorism again? Now we're talking about groups of people consolidated on a little island? Fuck, I'm having trouble keeping up anymore.

It's not only that....

A little tid-bit from irishtimes.com referencing the worst of the fighting and issues that went on in the 70s:
-------------------
Papal visit from the 70s is referenced...

A crowd estimated at 250,000, many from Northern Ireland, heard the Pope appeal to the men and women of violence to end it.

"On my knees I beg of you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace ... Those who resort to violence always claim that only violence brings about change. You must know there is a political, peaceful way to justice."
------------------

We are dealing with a world-wide muslim problem right now, where we see very little Islamic leadership outright denouncing and actively curtailing the stuff going on out there. There is some, but its a drop in the bucket...

[SlowLX]

Ireland is a bad example...that's all I'm saying. Do you HONESTLY want to equate 9-11 (and 3000+ deaths) with what goes on in Ireland? I don't recall an Irishman strapping 20lbs of C4 on his back and wandering through an Israeli marketplace, and detonating himself.

You're right it's not a perfect comparison which is why its not the one I've been using, I'll still stick to the whole firebombing abortion clinics in the name of God shtick, even though much of this thread thinks that type of terrorism is completely different because in some inadvertent way its religiously different than an ultra conservative muslim blowing up a jewish market, etc.

OK, Slider wins... we don't kill anyone and just let the Muslims take over. I mean, it's all about making him happy because he thinks he's justified with his apples and oranges comparisons, right?

Because killing someone in the name of jesus is nowhere near as evil as killing someone in the name of allah? Hell, Dennis do you want another example of proof where religious violence has occurred where the muslims weren't the aggressors? Look at Bosnia in the 90's; those thousands of muslims were all fear mongering extremists. It couldn't have been that the largely orthodox and catholic bosnians were killing off entire villages because they had different beliefs.

Not once did I ever defend letting islamic extremism take over western society. Nor did I ever disagree with anything we as a country have done to combat it since it became the new hot zone in the world. What I have been arguing is that just because there's some stupid motherfucker who prays to allah to kill americans does not mean that you can waltz into your local 7-11 and tell the local haji to go fuck himself. IE the OP who HATES ALL MUSLIMS because clearly EVERYLAST muslim immigrant is nothing more than one step away from being a terrorist. Everylast one of these Lebanese fucks who choose to live in Arlington then are all terrorists? They couldn't have fled the violence in lebanon to a country that's peaceful and lets them live their quite little lives owning hookah shops and managing gas stations; no deep down that fuckhead selling me gas is really plotting to burn my truck down...you know, you guys are right that logic is awesome.

[Denny]

No, that was not your point. If it was, you did a piss-poor job of trying to convey it. All I got from you was the "Nu-uh... what a bout those Christians too!"

[Forever_frost]

Until Islam stands up and starts issuing fatwas saying that murdering in the name of Islam, blowing yourself up to kill others and such is against the Koran and you won't go to heaven, instead you'll go to hell, fuck Islam.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

That's the problem, they can't. It would be in direct contradiction to what everything their religion stands for, because its in their holy book. It would be like the pope saying its ok to steal and murder. Can't ever do it.

[AnthonyS]

The God of Abraham is the same for Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, and Islam. Whether you choose to accept that is another thing entirely. And like has been said MANY times, the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were both bloody wars fought in the name of God, by Christians. So yes, the violence going on now is being done by Muslims... but it's not like worse hasn't happened in the past.

This is the biggest lie perpetuated by religion and Islam in particular. If they are the same god, then why do they have different names, and why pray tell do Islamists scream their god is greatest when they blow up crowds? Why?

Why would anyone proclaim in any two identical items that one was greater than another?

If they were indeed the same god, then claiming one is greater makes absolutely no sense. To think that this doesn't make sense at all is just ignorant.

The Jews and Christians have a God, and it sure as hell is not Allah. Muhammad most certainly was not one of their prophets. To confuse this is just plain ignorant. You really need to read more and stop spreading the lies that have been told to you.

[GSRGuy94]

Read more? You should try that. They all pray to the God of Abraham.

[Forever_frost]

Read more? You should try that. They all pray to the God of Abraham.

Wrong, Allah is a moon god

[GSRGuy94]

This is the biggest lie perpetuated by religion and Islam in particular. If they are the same god, then why do they have different names, and why pray tell do Islamists scream their god is greatest when they blow up crowds? Why?

Why would anyone proclaim in any two identical items that one was greater than another?

If they were indeed the same god, then claiming one is greater makes absolutely no sense. To think that this doesn't make sense at all is just ignorant.

The Jews and Christians have a God, and it sure as hell is not Allah. Muhammad most certainly was not one of their prophets. To confuse this is just plain ignorant. You really need to read more and stop spreading the lies that have been told to you.

Pulled this from another thread I posted in...

All I had to do was Google "Koran infidel," and this was the 2nd link to come up.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...9801&CATE=1426

Quote:
Islam is a fourteen-hundred years old way of life. One simply can't take the scripture of Islam, which is the Qur'an (also spelled Koran), and make sweeping generalizations about the religion, particularly when one lacks the qualifications to interpret the Qur'an.

The Qur'an makes reference to different groups of non-Muslims. First, the Qur'an recognizes the natural diversity of humanity, "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." (Qu'ran, 49:13)

There is also the recognition that human beings are religiously and ethnically diverse, "For, had God so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community; however, He lets go astray him that wills [to go astray], and guides aright him that wills [to be guided]; and you will surely be called to account for all that you ever did!" (Qur'an, 16:93)

What then does the Qur'an say about "infidels?" First, what does the term infidel mean? It is not a Qur'anic term. It is a term that Christians have historically applied to non-Christians, particularly Muslims. Christian doctrine simply did not recognize the legitimacy of Islam. Hence, Muslims were "infidels," and usually placed in the same category as "pagans" and "savages."

The Qur'an speaks of "kuffar," or those who disbelieve, or cover up the truth, or deny the truth of God and His messengers. However, it is incorrect to translate "kafir" as infidel. The Qur'an also does not label all non-Muslims as kuffar, or unbelievers.

The Qur'an talks about a group of non-Muslims called "Ahl al-Kitab," or People of Scripture. These are people who have received divine revelation, particularly Christians and Jews. Therefore, the Qur'an automatically recognizes previous Abrahamic faiths and accords special status to the adherents of Christianity and Judaism. What is ironic is that Christian and Jewish doctrine makes no provision for the recognition of Islam; however, Islam recognizes both Christianity and Judaism as divinely-revealed religions. But it is Islam that is always accused of intolerance!


Let's look at one of the most misunderstood passages of the Qur'an:

"And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out..."

Most people usually only quote the first part.

Here's the entire passage:

"And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors." (Qur'an, 2:190-192)

Let's look at the interpretation of the above verses. First, examine the historical context. These verses were revealed at a time when Islam was under siege, when the small Muslim community was fighting for its very existence against powerful polytheists. The biography of the Prophet Muhammad, Allah bless him and give him peace, makes it very clear that the Prophet preached peacefully for the first 13 years of his mission. He left Mecca for Medina to make a new start. Even when the polytheists in Mecca were persecuting Muslims and looting their houses, the Prophet hesitated to fight. He only took up arms when God gave him permission:

"Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them." (Qur'an, 22:39)

You can interpret that as you wish. If you wish to believe that every Muslim in the world wishes you dead, so be it.

There. I did it for you.

[AnthonyS]

Wrong, Allah is a moon god

He's also a black rock which is kept in the Ka'aba.

Of course since GSR guys believes the lies they tell him, he will never know this.

GSRguy, go read the Quran. You'll see it gives them permission to lie to non believers. You're just dumb enough to believe the lies.

I like how the first sentence in your main quote talks about being qualified to read it. This is the same argument the clerics use to enslave Muslims. Bravo!

[GSRGuy94]

Nice to know you have an unbiased opinion...

[AnthonyS]

Nice to know you have an unbiased opinion...

Honestly when it comes to religion, I'm pretty damn unbiased. I can make a catholic priest, a jewish rabii, a muslim cleric, and athiests all mad. You want to know why? Because all of them are lying to us. If you would bother to read the Quran and the Bible both you would know they were all lying.

And just why are they all lying? Well it's in The Bible in plain language for anyone to read. It doesn't requires some sort of mystical supernatural power to understand or interpret, and neither does the Quran.

And guess what, your Methodist pastor is lying to you when they tell you that we all worship the same god. It's pure utter BS at it's very best.

Good job of not answering my question for the 2nd time by the way. Would you like to get your 3rd strike out of the way again?

Why do they scream their god is greatest right before they blow themselves up if everyone worships the same god? ..... still waiting.....

Once you understand this simple and easily verifiable fact, then you understand a whole lot about world religion.

[GSRGuy94]

Methodist? Nice try. And no religious person has ever been very good at understanding another religion.

[talisman]

Honestly when it comes to religion, I'm pretty damn unbiased. I can make a catholic priest, a jewish rabii, a muslim cleric, and athiests all mad. You want to know why? Because all of them are lying to us. If you would bother to read the Quran and the Bible both you would know they were all lying.

I'm an atheist. Does this mean I should be killed like the muslims?

[Vertnut]

I'm an atheist. Does this mean I should be killed like the muslims?

Of course not. Just realize that to a muslim, you are the worst kind of infidel because you believe in nothing.