Here you go you dumbs$%&#@

[Maddhattter]

Well, there's always the Big Bang Theory, the best that mankinds science can currently trot out. One only needs to first accept the notion that something (the mysterious singularity) appeared out of nowhere and began the expansion of the universe out of nothing.

No, they don't.

The big bang theory doesn't posit where the singularity came from, nor is that under it's purview. You don't have to accept anything "came out of nowhere" to accept the big bang theory.

[Forever_frost]

I don't say science has disproved the existence of God. I say that your claim that a diety exists in the first place requires evidence. Try again.

Actually, you're wrong. My view requires faith, yours requires proof. So, I offer my faith, you offer your proof. You are saying I'm wrong but lack anything from science to back up your supposition. I offer you faith. Now, for me to accept what you have to offer, you would have to have answers to hard questions, do you have those answers?

[Forever_frost]

Well, there's always the Big Bang Theory, the best that mankinds science can currently trot out. One only needs to first accept the notion that something (the mysterious singularity) appeared out of nowhere and began the expansion of the universe out of nothing.

Oh no, now they're saying there never was a big bang, things have always been here. Kind of like what we say about God but you know...it sounds better when science claims it.

[The King]

No, they don't.

The big bang theory doesn't posit where the singularity came from, nor is that under it's purview. You don't have to accept anything "came out of nowhere" to accept the big bang theory.

Yes, they do.

To accept the big bang theory one must accept a sigularity as its origin. Accept it blindly, one might say, and accept that its existence preceded time, space, and matter.

[AnthonyS]

There is a huge scientific problem with the Big Bang theory. Entropy which is real disproves the theory. Shit can't just blow up. A blasting cap shoved in a pile of plastic explosive won't just blow up on its own.

[YALE]

Actually, you're wrong. My view requires faith, yours requires proof. So, I offer my faith, you offer your proof. You are saying I'm wrong but lack anything from science to back up your supposition. I offer you faith. Now, for me to accept what you have to offer, you would have to have answers to hard questions, do you have those answers?

I don't have to go to science to get proof. I'm not making a claim. I'm saying I don't believe yours. I haven't claimed to have any answers. I have stated that no evidence has been presented by you to back up your claim. Keep trying.

[racrguy]

There is a huge scientific problem with the Big Bang theory. Entropy which is real disproves the theory. Shit can't just blow up. A blasting cap shoved in a pile of plastic explosive won't just blow up on its own.

lol entropy. You couldn't even begin to have an educated conversation on the topic.

[Maddhattter]

Yes, they do.

To accept the big bang theory one must accept a sigularity as its origin. Accept it blindly, one might say, and accept that its existence preceded time, space, and matter.

This is not the case. In the current model of the big bang theory, that singularity is everything, not the beginning of it. Under the currently accepted model, we're not even sure that "preceded" is even a valid concept because there is no current scientific theory(there are hypothesis') that states where the singularity comes from.

Again, there is no need to believe the singularity came from nowhere because there isn't any evidence that points to that conclusion.

There is a huge scientific problem with the Big Bang theory. Entropy which is real disproves the theory. Shit can't just blow up. A blasting cap shoved in a pile of plastic explosive won't just blow up on its own.

The big bang never posits an explosion. The big bang theory only posits an expansion. A slow one that took a massive amount of time. So, your analogy is flawed.

However, the idea of the singularity(as far as the big bang theory is concerned) is that everything is compressed into a single point. The very laws of our universe, as we understand them, would ultimately force the particles apart (from a compressed, ordered state to a more chaotic one) just like anything else you compress. So, if the the big bang theory is true, our universe would be the result of entropy acting on the singularity.

That's not even taking into consideration that this is all assuming that you're using the layman's definition of entropy and not the scientific definition. By the physic's definition, there is no problem at all because all energy, matter, etc would have been present in the singularity. As energy cannot be create or destroyed, as we understand it, all of that energy would have been present at the point that the expansion started providing it all the energy available to power is actions. So, entropy couldn't be a problem by that definition either.

[bluecollar]

I don't say science has disproved the existence of God. I say that your claim that a diety exists in the first place requires evidence. Try again.

This is becoming an entertaining thread.

I will say that the bold section seems to be the biggest issue in any discussion involving religion. Faith is just that, faith. One's "evidence" may not be material or scientific data. I have spoken with multiple people that have had moments of clarity, visions, heard voices, had an undeniable feeling "wash" over them. That is their proof, their evidence. It justifies the belief and is all that someone may need in order to accept that there is a God.

Others, like you, want physical 'hold it in your hand' evidence. If we follow the word, then your next chance at that type of evidence might be the end of days. Might be a bit late at that point to sit back and re prioritize. Just sayin'

Both sides have valid arguments with a whole pile of bullshit sprinkled in for good measure. No one KNOWS. The only people that know if there is an afterlife, a God, an eternity are dead. So I doubt they'll give us a heads up either way. We all have our beliefs. The belief that there is, and the belief that there isn't.

This is coming from an agnostic. I honestly do not know what I believe, yet. I have heard good arguments from both sides, and poor arguments. I just try to be a decent human being.

Ok, continue...

[Gasser64]

Oh no, now they're saying there never was a big bang, things have always been here. Kind of like what we say about God but you know...it sounds better when science claims it.

lol, I saw that on "Through the wormhole". Apparently some of them (the science guyz) are proposing an alternate theory. That its just always been there. Heard about it on the radio too I think...can't remember. Kind of funny, but I'd call it as good an explanation as anything I've heard yet.

I don't have to go to science to get proof. I'm not making a claim. I'm saying I don't believe yours. I haven't claimed to have any answers. I have stated that no evidence has been presented by you to back up your claim. Keep trying.

Eh, he's got a point. You ask him for proof of his claims, but he can just as easily ask you for proof of yours. Its pretty much a stalemate for the next 100-200 years until something is finally proven for certain. You'd ask him to prove his God exists, he'd ask you to prove it doesn't. Neither one of you can prove anything. So we'd just as well forgo that entire debate.

Religion or not, there actually does seem to be some evidence for an afterlife. NDE's and some other weird creepy shit that has gone on and been documented well. However from the stuff I've watched, what's been reported by experiencers doesn't jive one little bit with what the religions say. At least no religion I've ever heard of.

[YALE]

Eh, he's got a point. You ask him for proof of his claims, but he can just as easily ask you for proof of yours. Its pretty much a stalemate for the next 100-200 years until something is finally proven for certain. You'd ask him to prove his God exists, he'd ask you to prove it doesn't. Neither one of you can prove anything. So we'd just as well forgo that entire debate.

We'll do this your way. Please provide evidence as to why you are an atheist. Please disprove the existence of God.

[The King]

This is not the case. In the current model of the big bang theory, that singularity is everything, not the beginning of it. Under the currently accepted model, we're not even sure that "preceded" is even a valid concept because there is no current scientific theory (there are hypothesis') that states where the singularity comes from.

Again, there is no need to believe the singularity came from nowhere because there isn't any evidence that points to that conclusion.

Equally, there is no need to believe the singularity is everything, since it is merely a construct conceived by mankind to support a theory conceived by mankind.

Experts can always use the words uttered by Bill Clinton as a starting point in support of hypotheses regarding where the singulaity came from, to wit:
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

[Gasser64]

We'll do this your way. Please provide evidence as to why you are an atheist. Please disprove the existence of God.

I can't. Nobody can do that, or there wouldn't be Islam or christianity, or this thread.

[The King]

The basic topic that this thread morphed into has been hashed over many times before, both here and in canada. No positions likely have changed or should change based solely on internet forum posts or Google searches.

[slow99]

Y'all let me know when you sort this out.