The ATF is making a decision

[David]

Making or having a machine gun is not the illegal part. What they charge you with and send you to prison for is not paying the 200 dollar tax. Someone with some nuts could send the Feds a 200 dollar check with the guns serial number on it and if they get caught with the gun the Feds would be fucked if they got the person into court assuming the person could produce the canceled check. The tax stamp many of us are so fond of collecting is just the 1930s way of giving you an offical recipt for paying the tax.

No. Been done. ATF won. And it was a Texas case.

[svauto-erotic855]

No. Been done. ATF won.

When and what court? I searched at length on PACER and could not find a case like it.

[David]

Hollis v. Lynch

US District Court for the Northern District of Texas. Appealed to 5th Circuit and affirmed.

[svauto-erotic855]

Hollis v. Lynch

US District Court for the Northern District of Texas. Appealed to 5th Circuit and affirmed.

I know this case and it is not the same as what I am talking about. I was talking about staying out of prison, not keeping the gun.

[EW]

I don't care about bumpstocks but I am of the don't give an inch group.
All of you need to join the GOA. www.gunowners.org and sign up for the jpfo emails.

[David]

I know this case and it is not the same as what I am talking about. I was talking about staying out of prison, not keeping the gun.

I don’t think anyone ever knows what you’re talking about.

People go to prison yearly for illegal machine gun possession and it’s not because the charge is tax evasion.

[svauto-erotic855]

I don’t think anyone ever knows what you’re talking about.

People go to prison yearly for illegal machine gun possession and it’s not because the charge is tax evasion.

You are completely wrong on this part. The gun is not what sends you to prison. Having the gun without paying the tax is the illegal part. The jury charge centers on failure to pay the tax and the governments burden of proof is to show that you failed to pay the tax on the gun.

Edit: Just an FYI. Legally an NFA weapon in not considered a firearm as defined in the GCA.

[David]

You are completely wrong on this part. The gun is not what sends you to prison. Having the gun without paying the tax is the illegal part. The jury charge centers on failure to pay the tax and the governments burden of proof is to show that you failed to pay the tax on the gun.

Edit: Just an FYI. Legally an NFA weapon in not considered a firearm as defined in the GCA.

So guess what, you’re going to jail for possessing an unregistered machine gun. Not for tax evasion.

[svauto-erotic855]

So guess what, you’re going to jail for possessing an unregistered machine gun. Not for tax evasion.

Nope, not at all. You are going to jail for not paying the tax. May people have had NFA weapons registered in the NFA logs but have gotten cross with the ATF becuse the tax was not paid on a technical transfer. The NFA logs are also missing 10s of thousands of weapons that are legal and the ATF finds gaps in their records all of the time and corrects them. My family has stamps dating from the early 60s and it is safe to say that the ATF could not find records of any of them even if it was a matter of life or death mostly becuase the ATF did not exsist when the stamps were issued.

[David]

Nope, not at all. You are going to jail for not paying the tax. May people have had NFA weapons registered in the NFA logs but have gotten cross with the ATF becuse the tax was not paid on a technical transfer. The NFA logs are also missing 10s of thousands of weapons that are legal and the ATF finds gaps in their records all of the time and corrects them. My family has stamps dating from the early 60s and it is safe to say that the ATF could not find records of any of them even if it was a matter of life or death mostly becuase the ATF did not exsist when the stamps were issued.

I have stamps from the 40s. I don’t care what the records are.

The ATF is not sending you to jail on a tax evasion charge for an item that they don’t even accept a tax on in the first place. Theres nothing to evade if there’s nothing to be paid.

[Gasser64]

LMFAO!
Yale, you're busted, you pinko commie.
*rips the Yale mask off* Ah-HA! It is Joseph Stalin's zombie corpse! I knew it!

He busted himself. He's already said he prefers some kind of "democratic socialism" as his government. Yeah socialism works great. And they love for you to have guns.

[Trip McNeely]

"Boom boom boom, open the door! ATF!" -DMX

[32vfromhell]

The problem with giving into this is it could set precedent (not neccessarily legal precedent) that anything that effects the rate of fire of your firearm is a machine gun. Trigger jobs could be next, as they can allow you to "fire faster" .

[svauto-erotic855]

I have stamps from the 40s. I don’t care what the records are.

The ATF is not sending you to jail on a tax evasion charge for an item that they don’t even accept a tax on in the first place. Theres nothing to evade if there’s nothing to be paid.

The 200 dollar NFA stamp is a tax stamp. The 200 dollars you pay is the tax on NFA weapons. The Feds back when the NFA was passed were aware of the limits of their power and the one power they have that is unlimited is the power to tax. They used that power to levy a tax on certain things in an attempt to limit the public's consumption of those things. Congress also has the power to regulate what they levy taxes on which is how they passed the pure foods and drug act nearly 100 years ago.

I WILL SAY THIS CLEARLY SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IT. THE LAW YOU GET CHARGED WITH BREAKING WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT WITH AN NFA ITEM WITHOUT PAPER WORK IS FAILURE TO PAY THE 200 DOLLAR TAX. FAILURE TO PAY THE 200 DOLLAR TAX CARRIES A FINE OF 250,000 DOLLARS, UP TO 120 MONTHS IN PRISON, AND FORFEITURE OF THE ITEM THAT THE TAX WAS NOT PAID ON.

[David]

There’s no failure to pay when it’s not accepted.