How long would you leave a gun at the gunsmith?

[LANTIRN]

I got an AR15 in a trade about two months ago; the guy had taken the barrel off to get it threaded, and it did not come with a front handguard. No big deal, it was still a good trade for me.

I have headspacing gauges, but I don't have the tools to torque a barrel on, so I took it to a local (Midland) gun shop to have it put together. I asked how much it would be, he said he would have to order the handguard before he could give me a good quote; no problem, completely understandable.

A month and a half later it is not finished; at first he had the handguard on order, then when it finally got in my gun seemed to be way back on the list and he would get to it soon. I called today 5 times and kept getting the machine, whose message said they were supposed to be open on Monday.

Anyway, it's been a month and a half. The gun isn't that important to me, hell I am probably going to sell it as soon as it's repaired, but it's the principal. I never got a quote for cost, or an estimate for how long it would take (just a ballpark figure would be nice). How long would you guys leave a gun at the gunsmith under these conditions? I know things can take a while to get to, especially with hunting season around the corner, but it seems he could at least provide me with a little better communication. All he tells me when I do talk to him is that he'll get to it.

[longshot]

i left one for over a month just for a muzzle brake, good gunsmiths are in demand and there for they are very busy guys, but the end results are worth waiting for imo.

[KBScobravert]

Waslk in ask to see the rifle, when he hands it to you ask him "how much?", give him cash for work performed and take the rifle to CJ. lol

Torque the barrel on is a 5 minute job and most of that is setting the gun in a vise.

If I was home and I will be next month I could do it for you or show you and let you do it yourself. I have all the tools.

[CJ]

I got an AR15 in a trade about two months ago; the guy had taken the barrel off to get it threaded, and it did not come with a front handguard. No big deal, it was still a good trade for me.

I have headspacing gauges, but I don't have the tools to torque a barrel on, so I took it to a local (Midland) gun shop to have it put together. I asked how much it would be, he said he would have to order the handguard before he could give me a good quote; no problem, completely understandable.

A month and a half later it is not finished; at first he had the handguard on order, then when it finally got in my gun seemed to be way back on the list and he would get to it soon. I called today 5 times and kept getting the machine, whose message said they were supposed to be open on Monday.

Anyway, it's been a month and a half. The gun isn't that important to me, hell I am probably going to sell it as soon as it's repaired, but it's the principal. I never got a quote for cost, or an estimate for how long it would take (just a ballpark figure would be nice). How long would you guys leave a gun at the gunsmith under these conditions? I know things can take a while to get to, especially with hunting season around the corner, but it seems he could at least provide me with a little better communication. All he tells me when I do talk to him is that he'll get to it.

You dont have to head space AR-15's. They are self head spacing since the bolt locks into the barrel via the lugs, the upper receiver has no part in head spacing, it happens automatically. Any gunsmith that makes you wait to tighten a barrel on an AR-15 is ridiculous. I can torque a barrel on an AR15 in literally 10 seconds. All you need is a torque wrench and a master armorer's wrench, vice blocks are optional.

[LANTIRN]

I know how to do it from when I built my other AR with my cousin, but I didn't have the tools and figured it wouldn't take the guy long at all to torque it on. My cousin has the tools and if I lived closer to him I'd have gone to his house, but he lives about 5 hours away. After a month and a half I think 5 hours would have been worth the drive.

Also, I don't believer ARs are self headspacing; my cousin and I built 3 ARs together. I bought go / no-go gauges to be on the safe side, and when we got everything together two of the rifles headspaced correctly, and one of them failed. Turned out to the be the barrel, which the manufacturer replaced and then the rifle did headspace correctly. When dealing with a contained explosion in a firearm I would not just assume that it is going to headspace fine. That being said, the gun I have at the gunsmith was a complete factory built DPMS so I am sure everything would be fine if the gunsmith would just get the damn thing back together.

[svauto-erotic855]

I think that CJ's point is this. An AR is either made correctly and will headspace to spec or it was made incorrectly and the headspace is not correct. There is nothing that your gunsmith can do during the assembly process that can alter the headspace on an AR. Most rifles have lugs that lock into the receiver and the headspace can be altered when the rifle is being put together; this is not the case with an AR since the bolt locks up with the barrel.

[LANTIRN]

I think that CJ's point is this. An AR is either made correctly and will headspace to spec or it was made incorrectly and the headspace is not correct. There is nothing that your gunsmith can do during the assembly process that can alter the headspace on an AR. Most rifles have lugs that lock into the receiver and the headspace can be altered when the rifle is being put together; this is not the case with an AR since the bolt locks up with the barrel.

I get what you are saying. And I figured when I took it to the gunsmith there would be zero problems since it was a factory built rifle. Guess I am just a little concerned since I have seen a home built gun not headspace.

[jakesford]

Yeah go up there when they are open, and ask for the rifle back. CTD sells the wrench at their catalog counter.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2DPTLMW-1.html

[CJ]

I know how to do it from when I built my other AR with my cousin, but I didn't have the tools and figured it wouldn't take the guy long at all to torque it on. My cousin has the tools and if I lived closer to him I'd have gone to his house, but he lives about 5 hours away. After a month and a half I think 5 hours would have been worth the drive.

Also, I don't believer ARs are self headspacing; my cousin and I built 3 ARs together. I bought go / no-go gauges to be on the safe side, and when we got everything together two of the rifles headspaced correctly, and one of them failed. Turned out to the be the barrel, which the manufacturer replaced and then the rifle did headspace correctly. When dealing with a contained explosion in a firearm I would not just assume that it is going to headspace fine. That being said, the gun I have at the gunsmith was a complete factory built DPMS so I am sure everything would be fine if the gunsmith would just get the damn thing back together.

They head space themselves do to the barrel extension/bolt lockup feature. It is one of Stoner's primary design focuses, it eliminates quality control issues. You can attribute that feature to one of the reasons the AR15 is so popular - almost no one can screw one up (except DPMS from my own experience). Naturally it goes without saying that I'm not going to mention a faulty machined part. If someone asks me if my car drives, I'm going to say yes, not "only if the cam, crank, block, and valves are machined correctly." The distance between the bolt face plan and a datum line on the chamber shoulder is your head space. The headspace should not be less than 1.4646” and not more than 1.4706”. I've built many AR-15's and I've never seen an out of spec headspace. However, I do headspace target rifles to get them tightened up, and for my own knowledge for my handload cartridge lengths. I'm just curious why if you understood how easy it is to torque a barrel why you threw a thread up to ask if 1.5 months is out of the ordinary? When you get your tool, you need to lock the nut down at a minimum of 30ft lbs, and no more than 80ftlbs, whichever allows gas tube alignment, and usually weighted to the tighter. But, like I mentioned before, the very few factory built rifles i've seen that legitimately were built wrong were all DPMS rifles.

edit: if you need a go/no go gauge, I can resize a pair of dummy rounds at both the maximum and minimum tolerances and you can chamber each for safety purposes.

[DieselSmoke]

Yeah go up there when they are open, and ask for the rifle back. CTD sells the wrench at their catalog counter.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2DPTLMW-1.html

He's in West Texas but he can order it online.. But like cj said, armorer's wrench and a torque wrench. I would highly recommend a vice and vice block though. But thats just me, im anal on proper torque specs. I borrow torque wrenches from work because i know they've been to PMEL, being AF you what i mean. But anyhow if your gunsmith doesn't produce soon, go pick it up, buy the tools and do it your self.

[LANTIRN]

They head space themselves do to the barrel extension/bolt lockup feature. It is one of Stoner's primary design focuses, it eliminates quality control issues. You can attribute that feature to one of the reasons the AR15 is so popular - almost no one can screw one up (except DPMS from my own experience). Naturally it goes without saying that I'm not going to mention a faulty machined part. If someone asks me if my car drives, I'm going to say yes, not "only if the cam, crank, block, and valves are machined correctly." The distance between the bolt face plan and a datum line on the chamber shoulder is your head space. The headspace should not be less than 1.4646” and not more than 1.4706”. I've built many AR-15's and I've never seen an out of spec headspace. However, I do headspace target rifles to get them tightened up, and for my own knowledge for my handload cartridge lengths. I'm just curious why if you understood how easy it is to torque a barrel why you threw a thread up to ask if 1.5 months is out of the ordinary? When you get your tool, you need to lock the nut down at a minimum of 30ft lbs, and no more than 80ftlbs, whichever allows gas tube alignment, and usually weighted to the tighter. But, like I mentioned before, the very few factory built rifles i've seen that legitimately were built wrong were all DPMS rifles.

edit: if you need a go/no go gauge, I can resize a pair of dummy rounds at both the maximum and minimum tolerances and you can chamber each for safety purposes.

Thanks for the technical info, I always seem to learn a little more every time one of these threads come up relating to some "minor" technical question. Good to know it is very rare to have an AR not headspace; guess it was just bad luck that we got a barrel that didn't meet specs, but the company replaced it so no harm done.

To answer your question, when we built the guns two years ago my cousin is the one who bought the tools, and he lives 5 hours away. I assumed that it would be faster and about as cheap to have a gunsmith torque it on with a new free float handguard; obviously I was wrong. I should have just ordered the damn tool and did it myself, but I thought it would be faster this way as I want to sell the gun and buy something else (or work a trade). Anyway, that is what happened, but I did not think it would take well over a month to do it. I am going to call again tomorrow and see what the holdup is. Next time I'll just buy the tool and do it myself. Hell it would have been faster to mail it to my cousin. Hind sight is 20/20.

Oh, and I wasn't really asking if 1.5 months was out of the ordinary to torque on a barrel; I understand the guy might have had several guns ahead of me inline, but seeing as how it is such a simple thing to do I was just curious as to how long some of you would wait until you said screw it and got your gun back unfinished. Remember he had to order a handguard but I can't imagine that would have taken too long to come in.

[mustang_revival]

Gunsmith had my buddys Kimber Pro Carry for just over a month. Broke again after 2 mags worth of shooting. He took it back and it took another month to get it back. Then he sold it.

[ceyko]

I partially read the thread. At the end of the day, I'd be pissed about it taking so long just to put the barrel/hand guards on. Having never removed a barrel from an AR it took me all of an hour to watch a couple of videos and then do it. Next he'll charge you 200 in labor for it.

I'd have red flags at this point if I were you. I'd pay him for parts and get your rifle back. I'd bet there is someone there in Midland who will let you use their vice/tool to get it down. THF would probably be a good place to look for that.

[KBScobravert]

Closer to the original topic, my step father dropped off my Nylon 66 a year or so ago to be cleaned with a JA of a gunsmith. Those familiar with a Nylon know that you cannot just disassemble it yourself to get it real clean; although I will try it myself next time. Anywho, several and I mean maybe 6 months go by and he goes to pick the rifle up and the smith cannot find it. My pops was not too worried (wasn't his gun, lol) and gave him a week to find it. When he went back the smith started talking about how one of his customers wanted to buy it from me and was willing to give me $3,000 (cough* cough* bullshit). Well we paid the $105 or so dollars and my gun came back home. Fast forward a few months and I went to pick it up from their house and looked the rifle over; it was never taken apart and still dirty as when it was left. They did replace a missing screw from the front sight post.

Gunsmith was in Hurst off of Pipeline by the appliance store.

[Brandon-k]

Closer to the original topic, my step father dropped off my Nylon 66 a year or so ago to be cleaned with a JA of a gunsmith. Those familiar with a Nylon know that you cannot just disassemble it yourself to get it real clean; although I will try it myself next time. Anywho, several and I mean maybe 6 months go by and he goes to pick the rifle up and the smith cannot find it. My pops was not too worried (wasn't his gun, lol) and gave him a week to find it. When he went back the smith started talking about how one of his customers wanted to buy it from me and was willing to give me $3,000 (cough* cough* bullshit). Well we paid the $105 or so dollars and my gun came back home. Fast forward a few months and I went to pick it up from their house and looked the rifle over; it was never taken apart and still dirty as when it was left. They did replace a missing screw from the front sight post.

Gunsmith was in Hurst off of Pipeline by the appliance store.

Some people really love those Nylons. (me included) My buddy gets an offer on his every time we take it out. No shit.