So Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degree murder.

[robray5.0]

In reality, of course there is one set of facts, what everyone is discussing doesn't seem that way. Seems most people have a conclusion and they include the facts that strengthen that conclusion and dismiss those that weaken it. Same goes for both sides.

Aren't everyone's "facts" from some sort of media including your own? I don't think Zimmerman is racist, nor do I care. Meh





When Zimmerman first called to report Martin Zimmerman did not call 911, he called the non-emergency number to the Sanford Police Department which is answered "Sanford Police Department..." on the recording of the call. Next time I'll be more specific and say at 7:09 PM on February 26th George Zimmerman called 407 688 5070 and the phone was answered "Sanford Police Department..." Then I'll ask everyone on the internet if that's good enough for my simple statement. Ehh, fuck it, no I won't, lol, I just say "cops" the next time he calls the cops.

Again I'm not saying Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. I wasn't a witness and certainly don't know for a fact what the actual events were. I'm not trying to start an argument on the internet with strangers who know as little or less than myself about it.

The only thing I'm trying to say - If I called the cops to report some suspicious activity, told them I was following the person, they told me they didn't need me to, but I got out of my truck with a pistol and I end up killing that unarmed person...I expect to be facing a jury of my peers for something.

Call me crazy, but I don't think I can go around shooting and killing unarmed people without so much as a trial that easily in this country.

"Naww bro, it wasn't my fault. It was self-defense! Shit, ask the other guy...oh you can't, he's dead? Well, take my word for it, I'm totally legit bro!"

The media twists and distorts the facts of what happened, which makes it hard determine what really happened. I'll let the jury decide. What anyone else thinks is irrelevant and only a matter of what you believe. I tend to agree with hobie that unless it's a clear cut case of self-defense(ie. multiple witnesses or video) that if I shoot an unarmed person I expect to be charged and let a jury decide.

[slow99]

I'm not trying to start an argument on the internet with strangers who know as little or less than myself about it.

Uggghhhh...

[Nash B.]

Uggghhhh...

I was thinking the same thing me!

[mikec]

...When Zimmerman first called to report Martin Zimmerman did not call 911, he called the non-emergency number to the Sanford Police Department which is answered "Sanford Police Department..." on the recording of the call. Next time I'll be more specific and say at 7:09 PM on February 26th George Zimmerman called 407 688 5070 and the phone was answered "Sanford Police Department..." Then I'll ask everyone on the internet if that's good enough for my simple statement. Ehh, fuck it, no I won't, lol, I just say "cops" the next time he calls the cops.
...

The only thing I'm trying to say - If I called the cops to report some suspicious activity, told them I was following the person, they told me they didn't need me to, but I got out of my truck with a pistol and I end up killing that unarmed person...I expect to be facing a jury of my peers for something.

Call me crazy, but I don't think I can go around shooting and killing unarmed people without so much as a trial that easily in this country.

You're getting better with age, but you're still a fucking lib bro. Like you because you are a smart kid, but, you're still a kid. 20 years you'll be flawless, cause you'll be conservative by then...

!. If I call a number and and a cop answers the phone,what's it matter if it's911 or the fucking fresh donuts just came out of the oven break room? It's still a fucking cop on the damned phone. Right?

2.If I have a CHL, it's usually in a holster, not in the seat or glovebox. So,naturally,when I get my ass out the truck it goes with me. Unless I had just spotted a suspicious looking 6'2" black male with gold teeth shining in the moonlight wearing a hoodie, and carrying burglary tools in his backpack, walking through a gated community in which he didn't live while looking in windows. My bad. Should have taken it out of the holster and put it in the "negro donations box" at the end of the block. AKA my neighbors car.

3. One of us is going to feel like a damned fool when the jury says "Who the hell are the dumbasses that believed this shit?", and points in your direction.

[Hobie]

You're getting better with age, but you're still a fucking lib bro. Like you because you are a smart kid, but, you're still a kid. 20 years you'll be flawless, cause you'll be conservative by then...

On this board I'm seen as a liberal. On US general discussion boards I'm seen as right wing. On more global (but still mostly US based) English language discussion boards I'm the Texan, rightwing nut, fascist, progun, environment killing asshole. In real life I'm a constitutionalist that identifies mostly as a libertarian and votes republican.

!. If I call a number and and a cop answers the phone,what's it matter if it's911 or the fucking fresh donuts just came out of the oven break room? It's still a fucking cop on the damned phone. Right?

I simply said "cops" first, but this wasn't good enough for kbscobravert. kbscobravert quoted me to call me out on the usage of the word "cops" and while correctly stating that 911 operators are not cops, he was incorrect when he stated that Zimmerman called 911. He called the police department.

2.If I have a CHL, it's usually in a holster, not in the seat or glovebox. So,naturally,when I get my ass out the truck it goes with me. Unless I had just spotted a suspicious looking 6'2" black male with gold teeth shining in the moonlight wearing a hoodie, and carrying burglary tools in his backpack, walking through a gated community in which he didn't live while looking in windows. My bad. Should have taken it out of the holster and put it in the "negro donations box" at the end of the block. AKA my neighbors car.

Is that what happened? Perhaps you should call 407 688 5070 with your accounts of the events. Or perhaps call Zimmerman's new attorneys?

It's a sticky situation no doubt. Maybe Zimmerman fired in self-defense, maybe he let his emotions get out of control. We'll see what happens.

[WildBill]

, maybe he let his emotions get out of control. We'll see what happens.

What led you to come to THAT conclusion?

[ram57ta]

It's a sticky situation no doubt. Maybe Zimmerman fired in self-defense, maybe he let his emotions get out of control. We'll see what happens.

I thought it had been reported that the gun used...a Kel-Tec PF9, didn't cycle properly for another round because there was a fight for the gun going on when it was fired and Martin was hit? Being a double action ONLY gun...that means either the gun jammed during the ejection/reload process OR somone was interfering with the operation of the slide by holding on to it. If Martin grabbed onto the gun when he saw it (dumb move) instead of backing off (what he should have done) he obviously meant to take it away from Zimmerman in which case he probably would have used it on Zimmerman. I'm sorry....but even if I was following a person against the ADVICE of a dispatcher...if the questionable person I was following/watching attacked me (breaking my nose and slamming my head into the sidewalk) and tried to take my gun away from me...I would assume their intention was to kill ME with it....I would shoot them before I let them have my gun.
I am assuming Zimmerman will be acquitted or the judge will throw it out before it makes it to trial. I was all about Zimmerman being hanged originally....but as the actual facts were made public I changed my mind about this case. Ultimately I wasn't there...and only the judge hearing the case...and the jury can decide what facts they wish to believe. I think Zimmerman will be acquitted.

[03trubluGT]

I thought it had been reported that the gun used...a Kel-Tec PF9, didn't cycle properly for another round because there was a fight for the gun going on when it was fired and Martin was hit? Being a double action ONLY gun...that means either the gun jammed during the ejection/reload process OR somone was interfering with the operation of the slide by holding on to it. If Martin grabbed onto the gun when he saw it (dumb move) instead of backing off (what he should have done) he obviously meant to take it away from Zimmerman in which case he probably would have used it on Zimmerman. I'm sorry....but even if I was following a person against the ADVICE of a dispatcher...if the questionable person I was following/watching attacked me (breaking my nose and slamming my head into the sidewalk) and tried to take my gun away from me...I would assume their intention was to kill ME with it....I would shoot them before I let them have my gun.
I am assuming Zimmerman will be acquitted or the judge will throw it out before it makes it to trial. I was all about Zimmerman being hanged originally....but as the actual facts were made public I changed my mind about this case. Ultimately I wasn't there...and only the judge hearing the case...and the jury can decide what facts they wish to believe. I think Zimmerman will be acquitted.

I don't believe a judge exists that will dismiss this case on the sheer principal of being afraid of going down in history as being the most racist judge ever.

I predict this will have to go to a jury, and if you have people of mixed race, it will probably be a hung jury. Do some research on jury pooling on the historical decisions of minorities when it comes to cases dealing with minorities, justice is far from color blind.

[ThreeFingerPete]

I don't believe a judge exists that will dismiss this case on the sheer principal of being afraid of going down in history as being the most racist judge ever.

I predict this will have to go to a jury, and if you have people of mixed race, it will probably be a hung jury. Do some research on jury pooling on the historical decisions of minorities when it comes to cases dealing with minorities, justice is far from color blind.

Exactly. There is no such thing as a fair trial when the media shoves lies down everyone's throats before the trial.

[sig239]

I thought it had been reported that the gun used...a Kel-Tec PF9, didn't cycle properly for another round because there was a fight for the gun going on when it was fired and Martin was hit? Being a double action ONLY gun...that means either the gun jammed during the ejection/reload process OR somone was interfering with the operation of the slide by holding on to it. If Martin grabbed onto the gun when he saw it (dumb move) instead of backing off (what he should have done) he obviously meant to take it away from Zimmerman in which case he probably would have used it on Zimmerman. I'm sorry....but even if I was following a person against the ADVICE of a dispatcher...if the questionable person I was following/watching attacked me (breaking my nose and slamming my head into the sidewalk) and tried to take my gun away from me...I would assume their intention was to kill ME with it....I would shoot them before I let them have my gun.
I am assuming Zimmerman will be acquitted or the judge will throw it out before it makes it to trial. I was all about Zimmerman being hanged originally....but as the actual facts were made public I changed my mind about this case. Ultimately I wasn't there...and only the judge hearing the case...and the jury can decide what facts they wish to believe. I think Zimmerman will be acquitted.

It is better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six.

[Avery'sDad]

http://i41.tinypic.com/53s3ft.jpg

[Rick Modena]

The system fucked up by finding OJ not guilty and now pay back is letting Z go, its only fair...

[Hobie]

What led you to come to THAT conclusion?

Excellent point, I'm glad you cleared that up, based upon your thorough and consise post it is clearly beyond the realm of possibility for a man with a history of violence and weird rent-a-cop behavior to do something violent in a weird rent-a-cop manner, lulz.

I can see it both ways. I can see a trial hinging on what happened when Zimmerman decided to leave his truck. What was his intent? Was he really confirming the address? Did he go to confront Martin? Did Martin attack Zimmerman when he returned to his truck? Did Zimmerman stand his ground, did Zimmerman pull the pistol, did Martin attack Zimmerman, was Martin's attack unprovoked, was Martin fighting for his life when Zimmerman pulled the pistol, and so on and so forth. I don't know the answer to any of these questions and it looks like it's going to be up to a jury.

I thought it had been reported that the gun used...a Kel-Tec PF9, didn't cycle properly for another round because there was a fight for the gun going on when it was fired and Martin was hit? Being a double action ONLY gun...that means either the gun jammed during the ejection/reload process OR somone was interfering with the operation of the slide by holding on to it. If Martin grabbed onto the gun when he saw it (dumb move) instead of backing off (what he should have done) he obviously meant to take it away from Zimmerman in which case he probably would have used it on Zimmerman. I'm sorry....but even if I was following a person against the ADVICE of a dispatcher...if the questionable person I was following/watching attacked me (breaking my nose and slamming my head into the sidewalk) and tried to take my gun away from me...I would assume their intention was to kill ME with it....I would shoot them before I let them have my gun.
I am assuming Zimmerman will be acquitted or the judge will throw it out before it makes it to trial. I was all about Zimmerman being hanged originally....but as the actual facts were made public I changed my mind about this case. Ultimately I wasn't there...and only the judge hearing the case...and the jury can decide what facts they wish to believe. I think Zimmerman will be acquitted.

Jeff, did you just say "if...obviously" - Too many ifs, unkowns, and assumptions. I don't feel like I know enough truth to condemn the man or the teen.

Exactly. There is no such thing as a fair trial when the media shoves lies down everyone's throats before the trial.

DFWmustangs hates the media so much. Where is it you get your news from, stone tablets?

Could we agree that the Globe's second largest media conglomerate qualifies as mainstream? <--- Just in case.

[DON SVO]

It's a sticky situation no doubt. Maybe Zimmerman fired in self-defense, maybe he let his emotions get out of control. We'll see what happens.

See below... I am editing down his quote because it's almost verbatim what I put into another thread...

I thought it had been reported that the gun used...a Kel-Tec PF9, didn't cycle properly for another round because there was a fight for the gun going on when it was fired and Martin was hit? Being a double action ONLY gun...that means either the gun jammed during the ejection/reload process OR somone was interfering with the operation of the slide by holding on to it.

I removed ram57TA's part about the gun maybe being used on Zimmerman etc.

If the weapon doesn't cycle, there are two prevalent reasons for it not operating properly: stovepipe/bad load or the slide being interfered with in it's operation. Since Martin was fatally wounded and bled to death at the scene, I am going to assume that the load was OK. This more than likely leaves us a very probable situation in that Martin had his hand around the barrel end of the weapon when he was shot.

If someone has his hand on the barrel of my pistol, we are certainly in what would be considered VERY CLOSE quarter combat... i.e. 1-2 feet from each other. Since Zimmerman was on his back getting his head bounced off the pavement as Martin was beating him in the face, there's one very viable scenario (totally armchair QBing this but I think it's pretty close to legit)

DON SVO's armchair QB scenario:

Martin is standing over/mounting Zimmerman and beating him, Zimmerman is on his back calling for help. There are multiple witnesses that all state that this was the case, and one witness who was saw Zimmerman getting beaten went into his house to call 911 and heard the gunshot. So as Zimmerman is getting hit in the face, he reaches for his CCW and draws it out. He brings it up towards Martin and probably aimed at his face (I know I would), Martin more than likely grabbed the barrel in an overhand grip (like a balled-up fist-type fashion) and tried to pull the weapon downwards. Zimmerman pulled the trigger and hit Martin in the chest. The gun did not fully cycle, most likely because of interference from Martin. I wouldn't be surprised if there were deep, angular cuts on Martin's outer palm/ring/pinky finger: I'd wager the slide closed with some of Martin's hand in the ejection chamber, thus jamming it and causing it to not cycle.

Point is... if you're gonna try to beat someone's head against the pavement, make sure you're not trying to kill a CHL-holding citizen.

[03trubluGT]

Excellent point, I'm glad you cleared that up, based upon your thorough and consise post it is clearly beyond the realm of possibility for a man with a history of violence and weird rent-a-cop behavior to do something violent in a weird rent-a-cop manner, lulz.

Are we to forget about Trayvon's history of assault against a bus driver, possession of burglary tools, drug possession, school expulsion, and thug pictures posted on the internet?