FTP on this one

[Machx2]

No, what you've been shown is pretty cut and dried. The fact he left the FOB twice in one night without being seen? Hellacious hole in the story. You're ex military, surely you have been on a FOB and know how hard it is to get on and off one.

And you didn't answer me. You are for handing this sargent over to the AFghanis. Are you for handing the cops that fired on the Katrina refugees and then planted weapons on them over to the Lower 9th ward? What about those cops at the Rodney King beating? Hand those over to the people of LA right?

That is the thing, you and I both know he was seen leaving the fob, no one wants to admit letting him leave. I believe I answered your question when I said I would not hand anyone over to a lynch mob. I realize you are characterizing Afghan government as one, they may be, but the fact is this occurred on their people. Not militants, it happened to women and children for no reason. What happens in situations like this, is you take that guy out of the country, and the rest of the military pays for one mans actions. He gets nothing but his little trial while other military personel deal with extra attacks and more lives lost. The same thing in policing. Some idiots kill people and beat a man they shouldn't have and the ones that are doing everything right pay for it.

[Forever_frost]

I am also former military. I generally do not view anyone guilty until it is proven in court. But look at the evidence in that case, it is pretty cut and dry, plus he has made a mistake by saying he killed someone, now he "can't remember it". I don't think police or military should be given any special treatment. Let them both fry when they make mistakes.

No, what you've been shown is pretty cut and dried. The fact he left the FOB twice in one night without being seen? Hellacious hole in the story. You're ex military, surely you have been on a FOB and know how hard it is to get on and off one.

And you didn't answer me. You are for handing this sargent over to the AFghanis. Are you for handing the cops that fired on the Katrina refugees and then planted weapons on them over to the Lower 9th ward? What about those cops at the Rodney King beating? Hand those over to the people of LA right?

[Machx2]

The guy you're talking to is a cop. We all know that police generally view us as guilty until we hire a lawyer, spend thousands of dollars and tons of time in court, and prove that we were actually innocent.

That is how the system is set up, isn't it?

I am also former military. I generally do not view anyone guilty until it is proven in court. But look at the evidence in that case, it is pretty cut and dry, plus he has made a mistake by saying he killed someone, now he "can't remember it". I don't think police or military should be given any special treatment. Let them both fry when they make mistakes.

[LANTIRN]

The guy you're talking to is a cop. We all know that police generally view us as guilty until we hire a lawyer, spend thousands of dollars and tons of time in court, and prove that we were actually innocent.

That is how the system is set up, isn't it?

Ok, it all makes sense now. Should have smelled the bacon frying...


On that note, when the cops do something wrong like shoot someone's dog there is often proof like video, eye witnesses, oh, and usually the department telling the media exactly what happened and then telling the citizen to go fuck himself.

[mikec]

The ENTIRE point of the UCMJ is to protect our soldiers with OUR laws in another country during war or peace. The UCMJ is EXACTLY what this guy needs right now; and last time I checked it was still innocent until proven guilty.

The guy you're talking to is a cop. We all know that police generally view us as guilty until we hire a lawyer, spend thousands of dollars and tons of time in court, and prove that we were actually innocent.

That is how the system is set up, isn't it?

[Broncojohnny]

Did I say hand the guy over to a lynch mob? No, I said he should be handed over to them. Meaning, their government. Police officers should answer to the laws where they commit their crimes, as should people in the military.

Dude, you were making a case there for a little bit but handing one of our guys over to a foreign government is just ridiculous.

[ceyko]

Did I say hand the guy over to a lynch mob? No, I said he should be handed over to them. Meaning, their government. Police officers should answer to the laws where they commit their crimes, as should people in the military.

Yeah, I'm not getting into this a whole lot - but mob/government are fairly similar.

[Forever_frost]

Did I say hand the guy over to a lynch mob? No, I said he should be handed over to them. Meaning, their government. Police officers should answer to the laws where they commit their crimes, as should people in the military.

Their government IS a lynch mob. It's like handing a skinhead to Sharpton and saying "Hey, do what you think is right and just." You have this idea that their government functions like ours. They don't. They have tribes, tribal warlords and a figurehead. Karzai? A puppet. Perhaps we should have turned the cops who opened fire on the Katrina people over to the Lower 9th Ward for justice, yes?

[Machx2]

No, but remember some of that legal stuff? Innocent till proven guilty? Not guilty by reason of insanity? I'm telling you, PTSD reduces the size of the hypocampus and you can have flashbacks where you cannot tell the difference between what you're seeing and what is real. Yes, you live with the results of your actions.

So what you're saying is that the cops who kill civilians, innocent civilians, they should be handed over to lynch mobs because well, they killed one of the community, community justice right?

Did I say hand the guy over to a lynch mob? No, I said he should be handed over to them. Meaning, their government. Police officers should answer to the laws where they commit their crimes, as should people in the military.

[Forever_frost]

No, but remember some of that legal stuff? Innocent till proven guilty? Not guilty by reason of insanity? I'm telling you, PTSD reduces the size of the hypocampus and you can have flashbacks where you cannot tell the difference between what you're seeing and what is real. Yes, you live with the results of your actions.

So what you're saying is that the cops who kill civilians, innocent civilians, they should be handed over to lynch mobs because well, they killed one of the community, community justice right?

[Machx2]

I can testify and have researched exactly how much PTSD can effect you. If I was his attorney I'd be saying flashbacks and memory loss. PTSD is a bitch. Especially when you're missing part of your foot, have been blown up, watched your friends die the day before and so forth.

I realize PTSD is tough, I do not have it but know many that do. But that doesn't give you a right to go murder people. PTSD or not, you live with the consequences of your actions. Am I right?

[Forever_frost]

I understand the purpose of the UCMJ, I am stating it is retarded on a good day. This guy doesn't need the UCMJ, he needs exactly what those children he killed got.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-21/news/31222256_1_bales-afghan-village-army-soldier

He admitted to killing some "men" after it happened. His lawyer is even stating they are planning on using that he had a "diminished capacity" due to a breakdown. It is funny how fast you guys are to say FTP without them getting a trial, yet you are also just as fast to defend some pos guy in the military and say innocent until proven guilty.

I can testify and have researched exactly how much PTSD can effect you. If I was his attorney I'd be saying flashbacks and memory loss. PTSD is a bitch. Especially when you're missing part of your foot, have been blown up, watched your friends die the day before and so forth.

[Machx2]

The ENTIRE point of the UCMJ is to protect our soldiers with OUR laws in another country during war or peace. The UCMJ is EXACTLY what this guy needs right now; and last time I checked it was still innocent until proven guilty.

I understand the purpose of the UCMJ, I am stating it is retarded on a good day. This guy doesn't need the UCMJ, he needs exactly what those children he killed got.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-21/news/31222256_1_bales-afghan-village-army-soldier

He admitted to killing some "men" after it happened. His lawyer is even stating they are planning on using that he had a "diminished capacity" due to a breakdown. It is funny how fast you guys are to say FTP without them getting a trial, yet you are also just as fast to defend some pos guy in the military and say innocent until proven guilty.

[LANTIRN]

He murdered people in another country, I think UCMJ should be out the window and he should be tried by their laws.

The ENTIRE point of the UCMJ is to protect our soldiers with OUR laws in another country during war or peace. The UCMJ is EXACTLY what this guy needs right now; and last time I checked it was still innocent until proven guilty.

[Forever_frost]

Poor guy? He is a pos and should have been turned over to the Afghans for them to deal with him as they see fit.

He has a right to investigation and trial. We NEVER turn our soldiers over to someone else. Or do you think Afghanistan would give him a trial? It'd be a kangaroo court, guilty and then slowly beheaded. And he's ACCUSED. I find the story to be kind of weak. Evidently he left the base twice, and got back on both times without being stopped? AFghanistan must have far easier bases than we did