School shooting this morning

[jasone]

he didnt kill everyone that way. he sent out word to noah who testified that the world would flood and people damn near tortured his family thinking they were crazy religous people, and no one but noahs family got on the boat. once again, the problem is choice.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out.


I don't see how that is free will.

[SMKR]

Words cannot describe.. I can't even watch the news. Kind of like 9/11, the images just make me tear up. It's disgusting. People these days just have no morals and no regards for human life.

I do commend channel 11 last night for airing family christmas movies and not following suit of all the other chsnnels covering this.

[Damnittsteve]

If praying makes people feel better, then more power to them. My question has not been answered, though. For believers, it won't matter, but for me, it's one of the many big questions that hasnt been answered and ultimately strengthens the doubts and even rejection of the notion of a great God.

If someone can seriously give me a solid explanation, I am all ears. And although I know there are others that may want to hear it, too, if the majority don't want it dragged out in this thread, I understand. Perhaps I should have started a different thread. My PM box is open, though.

this may sound like s dick statement, but i dont think the ears to your soul are open yet, maybe your logical mind's ears but those dont really apply when you are talking to what your brain think is you imaginary friend. you have an idea of how far down the hole i was jared, but Gods love brought me back, and now im pursuing a career in the ministry. im not a good example except for what not to do but ill say this. when i spent christmas in lew sterret in dallas my ears opened up to hear what God had to say. i hope you arent so hard headed that you will learn of his love and grace way before anything bad happens. God bless you.

wait that was elvis's line lol

[Damnittsteve]

I have a question about the free will thing. If man was given free will then why did god kill everyone with the great flood except for noah and his family, because he didn't like the way they were living?

he didnt kill everyone that way. he sent out word to noah who testified that the world would flood and people damn near tortured his family thinking they were crazy religous people, and no one but noahs family got on the boat. once again, the problem is choice.

[jluv]

Satan is the one who put fanned the flame of evil in the shooters hearts and and right now he is with them in hell mocking them for what he told them do to!


it is not Gods responsibility to babysit our every move whether it be shooting a school up or eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of life! we are desgined with free will.if it was God's fault we ALL would have lost faith a long time ago during the hitlers reign, or EVERYTIME there is a earthquake or flood making storm like katrina or sandy. hell you can look in the bible and read about the gread flood that only noah's family survived and id bet that some of his relatives felt the same way you do.

we may not be able to pray in advance of these tragedies in every situation, but we can pray for quick healing and blessings on those hurt and involved.

If praying makes people feel better, then more power to them. My question has not been answered, though. For believers, it won't matter, but for me, it's one of the many big questions that hasnt been answered and ultimately strengthens the doubts and even rejection of the notion of a great God.

If someone can seriously give me a solid explanation, I am all ears. And although I know there are others that may want to hear it, too, if the majority don't want it dragged out in this thread, I understand. Perhaps I should have started a different thread. My PM box is open, though.

[jasone]

Satan is the one who put fanned the flame of evil in the shooters hearts and and right now he is with them in hell mocking them for what he told them do to!


it is not Gods responsibility to babysit our every move whether it be shooting a school up or eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of life! we are desgined with free will.if it was God's fault we ALL would have lost faith a long time ago during the hitlers reign, or EVERYTIME there is a earthquake or flood making storm like katrina or sandy. hell you can look in the bible and read about the gread flood that only noah's family survived and id bet that some of his relatives felt the same way you do.

we may not be able to pray in advance of these tragedies in every situation, but we can pray for quick healing and blessings on those hurt and involved.

I have a question about the free will thing. If man was given free will then why did god kill everyone with the great flood except for noah and his family, because he didn't like the way they were living?

[Damnittsteve]

I just went outside and posed my question towards the sky. No answer yet. I must admit it felt like talking to an imaginary friend. He is up there, right? And the bad guy is down?

But to answer your second question, I've found that a lot of people who believe in God have answers for questions like mine. It must be in The Book somewhere.

Satan is the one who put fanned the flame of evil in the shooters hearts and and right now he is with them in hell mocking them for what he told them do to!


it is not Gods responsibility to babysit our every move whether it be shooting a school up or eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of life! we are desgined with free will.if it was God's fault we ALL would have lost faith a long time ago during the hitlers reign, or EVERYTIME there is a earthquake or flood making storm like katrina or sandy. hell you can look in the bible and read about the gread flood that only noah's family survived and id bet that some of his relatives felt the same way you do.

we may not be able to pray in advance of these tragedies in every situation, but we can pray for quick healing and blessings on those hurt and involved.

[jluv]

why dont you ask God that? do you really think anyone else could answer the question.

I just went outside and posed my question towards the sky. No answer yet. I must admit it felt like talking to an imaginary friend. He is up there, right? And the bad guy is down?

But to answer your second question, I've found that a lot of people who believe in God have answers for questions like mine. It must be in The Book somewhere.

[Damnittsteve]

First of all, RIP to the victims. This shit is awful.

Now, I don't really want to come off as combative, or hijack the thread and turn it into a big religious debate, but I have a serious question.

How come when good stuff happens, it's all "Praise Jesus!", "Glory to God!", and "Thank the Lord!", but whenever bad stiff happens, it's just free will of humans. God gets all the credit for the positive things in life, and none f the blame for tragic things. It's God that allows miracles like someone surviving a heart attack or a plane crash, someone winning the lottery or finding their lost kid alive in the woods. But we don't blame God one bit when a kid is born retarded or stillborn, or when a lunatic kills 20 kids, or when someone gets raped or shot or killed in some kind of accident. We praise God for food and water and mountains and the Sun, but we don't tie his name to cancer and AIDS and poverty and starvation and drought and earthquakes.

Logic says to me that if God is to be eligible for the praise and credit for all good things, he has to be equally liable for the bad stuff, too.

Why would he ever intervene into anything at all, and make anything turn out better, but then not intervention in other situations? How fucked up, naive, and egotistical is it for people to think he hand in helping your team win a soccer game, but he wouldn't help thwart the intentions of this school shooter, somehow?

why dont you ask God that? do you really think anyone else could answer the question.

[jluv]

God doesnt control freewill. end of story. it is not God's fault...

First of all, RIP to the victims. This shit is awful.

Now, I don't really want to come off as combative, or hijack the thread and turn it into a big religious debate, but I have a serious question.

How come when good stuff happens, it's all "Praise Jesus!", "Glory to God!", and "Thank the Lord!", but whenever bad stuff happens, it's just free will of humans. God gets all the credit for the positive things in life, and none of the blame for tragic things. It's God that allows miracles like someone surviving a heart attack or a plane crash, someone winning the lottery or finding their lost kid alive in the woods. But we don't blame God one bit when a kid is born retarded or stillborn, or when a lunatic kills 20 kids, or when someone gets raped or shot or killed in some kind of accident. We praise God for food and water and mountains and the Sun, but we don't tie his name to cancer and AIDS and poverty and starvation and drought and earthquakes.

Logic says to me that if God is to be eligible for the praise and credit for all good things, he has to be equally liable for the bad stuff, too.

Why would he ever intervene into anything at all, and make anything turn out better, but then not intervention in other situations? How fucked up, naive, and egotistical is it for people to think he had a hand in helping your team win a soccer game, but he wouldn't help thwart the intentions of this school shooter, somehow?

[soap]

fuck! too bad he shot himself. would've wanted to tie him to a tree and let all the moms and dads, have at it.

[01yz2nv]

God doesnt control freewill. end of story. it is not God's fault and it does no good to call people morons for believing in God. It was one disturbed individual that did this and that is all. God may be the only thing helping keep a few of the parents from killing themselves tonite. Whether there is a God or not, atleast some people are finding comfort in the thought of their kids being in a better place........and some people are finding comfort in screaming at the top of their lungs at him tonite.

Well said...

[Jester]

It is 10:00 am here in Afghanistan and I just read all 9 pages here. Honestly I have not sourced out the news anywhere else cause it would just make me more mad. I saw this post hit last night as I was going to sleep and just hoped it was a bad dream only to wake up and see it hadn't gone away. I tried not to talk to my wife too much about it on the phone in the office since I didn't want to sob in front of my coworkers.

Everyone here pretty much knows my stance on gun control so I will refrain from it being in my post any further.

My heart goes out to all the family and friends and the rest of our country virtually affected by today's tragedy. I can not imagine what it would be like to loose such a precious gift in life to such a senseless act like this. May God rest their little souls and may the person(s) behind this heinous attack rot in hell if they are already dead and if not I hope they will be soon enough.

keep your head down and spirits up, man.

[KBScobravert]

It is 10:00 am here in Afghanistan and I just read all 9 pages here. Honestly I have not sourced out the news anywhere else cause it would just make me more mad. I saw this post hit last night as I was going to sleep and just hoped it was a bad dream only to wake up and see it hadn't gone away. I tried not to talk to my wife too much about it on the phone in the office since I didn't want to sob in front of my coworkers.

Everyone here pretty much knows my stance on gun control so I will refrain from it being in my post any further.

My heart goes out to all the family and friends and the rest of our country virtually affected by today's tragedy. I can not imagine what it would be like to loose such a precious gift in life to such a senseless act like this. May God rest their little souls and may the person(s) behind this heinous attack rot in hell if they are already dead and if not I hope they will be soon enough.

[GhostTX]

Well, before violent movies, in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, three bombs were exploded at Bath School, killing 38 elementary (second- to sixth-grade) school children, as well as two teachers and four other adults (plus the bomber), and at least 58 others were injured. The bomber? The treasurer for the School Board, who drove up in his car and set off a bomb to kill and injure those who went to the school to help. That, not Newtown, not Columbine, not Virginia Tech, was the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history. No guns involved, and Hollywood couldn't be blamed back then.

Nor were there guns -- or Americans -- involved in another incident today, which was mostly pushed out of the news in the U.S. in light of the horrific Connecticut incident: in Henan, China, a man went into a school and stabbed 22 children, plus one adult. Apparently, no one was killed, but one report I read said it was part of a "wave of brutal stabbings and hammerings throughout China" over the past few years. Cripes: hammerings of children?!

What lesson can we get from things like what happened at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown? That it's not something new, it's not something American, and it's not about bombs, guns, knives ...or hammers. It's about how crazy people (and sometimes not-so-crazy people) turn to violence as an answer to their problems, real or perceived. I don't know what the answer is, but it's going to have to involve discussion on how we've closed most of our mental hospitals, pushing the mentally ill out to fend for themselves, or for ill-equipped families to deal with them without help. And yes, we DO need to have a discussion about whether it's too easy for nutballs to get guns.

As I was writing this, I had the news on in the background (my "local" stations are from Denver; Columbine High School is just outside Littleton, a Denver suburb. I had the paragraph above finished when they showed an interview with the principal at Columbine -- at the time of the 1999 shootings there, and still today. Frank DeAngeles said the answer isn't more school security, and isn't more gun control, but rather better help for people with mental problems. "The thing that I keep stating time and time again is what causes so much hate in people's hearts that they're willing to walk into an elementary school to injure or kill kids? Where did this start?" One thing that's clear is, it started long, long ago. The better question to ask is, How will it end?

The only other thing I want to say tonight is a thank-you to my brother and sister First Responders -- police, firefighters, and EMTs -- who rushed in to help today without having any idea whether it was safe, and were witness to unspeakable horror. I posted this to Facebook this afternoon, attributed to the late children's TV host Mr. Rogers: "When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of 'disaster,' I remember my mother's words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers -- so many caring people in this world." It is indeed comforting to know that when something like this does happen, there are always -- always -- helpers to work toward making things better.

http://www.thisistrue.com/blog-thinking_about_newtown.html