A follow up poll.

[idrivea4banger]

So my question does hold some merit then?!

[racrguy]

You are 100% sure, but might not be correct?

I'm 100% sure I don't believe in a god, as in there isn't even an inkling of belief in a god that resides in my head..

Are you fucking with me? I think you're fucking with me.

Thanks to whoever moved this back, btw.

[Baron Von Crowder]

No, I'm leaving open that I could be wrong. I 100% do not believe a god to exist, anywhere, in any capacity. But I could be wrong.



I know what you meant, and where you're coming from.

You are 100% sure, but might not be correct?

[racrguy]

Yes, Carlos is mad.


Can this be moved to the back porch? It's an interesting poll.

Back in the Porch, we are!

[idrivea4banger]

Yes, Carlos is going to be mad at everyone for calling him Carlos.

Yes, Carlos is mad.


Can this be moved to the back porch? It's an interesting poll.

[Maddhattter]

Well, lets try a different way.

Here is a box. What is inside that box? Is nothing inside that box, or is something inside that box? If I tell you something is in this box, and you belive it, then you would say yes. Right?

Yes. If I believe that something is inside the box, I'll would state that I believe.

What if you don’t believe me, and you think that there isnt anything in the box. You would say no, right?

You are correct. However, just because I do not believe you, does not mean that I think that there isn't anything in the box. It only means that I do not believe you when you say there is. If I don't know that there is something in the box, I still don't believe you when you say that there is.

Well what about those of us that would think " why is the box all wrapped up, if there isnt anything in it? " Should we say that no, there isnt anything in that box, or should we say yes, there is something inside that box?

That depends on what they believe. They can ask that question regardless of the answer. If they do not believe that there is something in the box (Mind you, this does not mean that they believe there is nothing in the box), then they would answer 'No', as they do not actively believe that there is something in the box. The they believe that there is something in the box is the only time that they would change their answer to 'Yes'.

We cant open that box and find out for sure either way. The doubt that someone would wrap up an empty box is why I say you would say yes, even though none of us will ever know for sure.

So, your position is that you believe that there is something in the box because you doubt that someone would wrap the box if it were empty? No problem. Because of your doubt, you believe that there is something in the box. So, you'd answer 'Yes'.

However, if you don't actively believe that there is something in the box, your answer would have to be 'No'. That's the dichotomy of the position. You either believe, or you do not.

[racrguy]

If you dont believe that a god exists, why would you leave the possibility that one/many could exist open? By leaving open the possibility, you are saying that you believe somehow, somewhere, a god/gods/higherpower might exist.

No, I'm leaving open that I could be wrong. I 100% do not believe a god to exist, anywhere, in any capacity. But I could be wrong.

Dang, my post started up a debate. The only reason I asked is because I grew up Catholic and always believed in God/Jesus/higher power. Over the past year and a half I've been questioning where I stand on this issue. Had you asked me this question 4 years ago I would have said yes. Nowadays, I'm not sure. I'm kind of stuck in between.

I know what you meant, and where you're coming from.

[idrivea4banger]

I believe that a god/gods/higher power might possibly exist, as it hasn't been proven not to. Does that mean I should have chosen yes as my answer instead of no?

Carlos is unsure if he believes, that is explicitly a "no" answer, because he doesn't believe one to exist.

Dang, my post started up a debate. The only reason I asked is because I grew up Catholic and always believed in God/Jesus/higher power. Over the past year and a half I've been questioning where I stand on this issue. Had you asked me this question 4 years ago I would have said yes. Nowadays, I'm not sure. I'm kind of stuck in between.

[Baron Von Crowder]

But I don't believe a god to exist. How does that work? All I've done is left the possibility for one to exist. I am correctly classified as an agnostic atheist.


Tried that, didn't work.

If you dont believe that a god exists, why would you leave the possibility that one/many could exist open? By leaving open the possibility, you are saying that you believe somehow, somewhere, a god/gods/higherpower might exist.

[Baron Von Crowder]

You can "not sure" as a no because it is, by definition. When it comes to a claim, such as having a belief in a god/gods as it is in this case, there are only two dichotomous options. Someone having a belief is either true or untrue. Unsure, unknown, impossible to know, paradoxical and anything else that isn't 'True' falls under the 'Untrue' category. Claiming that you do not believe in a god/gods/higher power does not mean you are ruling out the possiblity, nor does it mean that you believe that they do not exist.

You can believe that a god/gods/higher power might exist without believing that they do. In fact, the category of agnostic atheist falls under this. Agnostic atheists do not believe in a god/gods. However, since they are not claiming that they know that a god/gods exist, they are tacitly admitting that a god/gods might exist.

Well, lets try a different way.

Here is a box. What is inside that box? Is nothing inside that box, or is something inside that box? If I tell you something is in this box, and you belive it, then you would say yes. Right? What if you don’t believe me, and you think that there isnt anything in the box. You would say no, right? Well what about those of us that would think " why is the box all wrapped up, if there isnt anything in it? " Should we say that no, there isnt anything in that box, or should we say yes, there is something inside that box?

We cant open that box and find out for sure either way. The doubt that someone would wrap up an empty box is why I say you would say yes, even though none of us will ever know for sure.

[racrguy]

well, yes. IMO, unless you are 100% sure of no existance, then in your poll, yes would have to be the answer.

But I don't believe a god to exist. How does that work? All I've done is left the possibility for one to exist. I am correctly classified as an agnostic atheist.

Perhaps you should pray about it.

Tried that, didn't work.

[Maddhattter]

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.

You can "not sure" as a no because it is, by definition. When it comes to a claim, such as having a belief in a god/gods as it is in this case, there are only two dichotomous options. Someone having a belief is either true or untrue. Unsure, unknown, impossible to know, paradoxical and anything else that isn't 'True' falls under the 'Untrue' category. Claiming that you do not believe in a god/gods/higher power does not mean you are ruling out the possiblity, nor does it mean that you believe that they do not exist.

You can believe that a god/gods/higher power might exist without believing that they do. In fact, the category of agnostic atheist falls under this. Agnostic atheists do not believe in a god/gods. However, since they are not claiming that they know that a god/gods exist, they are tacitly admitting that a god/gods might exist.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I believe that a god/gods/higher power might possibly exist, as it hasn't been proven not to. Does that mean I should have chosen yes as my answer instead of no?

well, yes. IMO, unless you are 100% sure of no existance, then in your poll, yes would have to be the answer.

Perhaps you should pray about it.

[racrguy]

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.

I believe that a god/gods/higher power might possibly exist, as it hasn't been proven not to. Does that mean I should have chosen yes as my answer instead of no?

Carlos is unsure if he believes, that is explicitly a "no" answer, because he doesn't believe one to exist.

[Baron Von Crowder]

With the actual question being asked, no.



Actually, you can find a great many people who will say that they know that a god/gods do/do not exist. However, what I don't really feel that racrguy explained properly is that knowledge is a subset of belief.

You either believe something is true, or you do not. Not believing something is true does not mean you believe the opposite. So, unless you actively believe that a god/gods exist, then your answer is 'Nay'.



Going on what I was saying before, I don't feel like racrguy explained this thoroughly. By definition, t's not a 75% one way or the other. His chart is a 50/50 split.

If you believe that a god/gods exist, then you are a theist. If you believe but do not claim to know, or claim to not know, you are an agnostic theist. If you believe and claim to know that a god/gods exist, then you are a gnostic theist. Any of the above would be in the 'Yay' category.

If you do not believe that a god/gods exist, then you are an atheist. If you do not believe but do not claim to know, or claim not to know, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you do not believe and claim to know that a god/gods do not exist, then you are a gnostic atheist. All of these would be in the 'Nay' category.

His poll is a question is about what you believe, not what you know. If you are not sure, then you do not believe. Using your own analogy, if you are not sure if someone is guilty, you should put in a vote of 'Not Guilty', not 'Innocent'. By stating that you do not know if a god/gods exist, you are not claiming that you believe that a god/gods does not exist, only that you do not believe that it/they does.

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.