Anybody else, starting to sense the Ferguson Cop shooting might be excessive force ?

[kingjason]

Or something more dangerous. You have combat vets who are cops who tell their stories about being deployed and then you have a bunch of civilians who want their own combat stories and work to ensure they have some.

Over the years I have worked with many people. I can honestly say most would have no part in that kind of behavior. It is way to much fucking paperwork and head ache. I have had been involved in deadly force incidents and it is not cool. I mean who the fuck wants to be charged with homicide for doing their job? I was directly involved in one incident and rolled up right after the shit quit flying on another. I can guarantee you its no fun. I had good friend and partner tell me that he wished he could have been there. I told him that I was glad he wasn't and it was not something anyone ever needs to be involved in. The above story, and a couple of other incidents I have been involved in, I can still tell you to this day every aspect. I can tell you that little girl was wearing a light blue top, light blue pajama shorts, where her bruises were, everything about the house and the blood, etc etc. I remember looking down at the address when the tones went off and going WTF I am in front of the house. A lot of people can not hang around cops because they think we are insensitive pricks. I am going to tell you guys this job numbs you to everything. Things that are horrific to some people are just another day to us. No excuse for some actions and behaviors but still, you guys just don't get it sometimes.

I have seen extreme differences in military guys just like I have regular joes right out of college. I have seen very mild mannered guys and then guys that wanted to conquer the world. I guess the big difference is the military guys have a whole lot of training and can use that to their advantage. That can also make them appear a little more abrupt then other guys. It's really just a crap shoot.

[petyweestraw]

Lol about the hiring ex military

[03trubluGT]

We've made illegal a ton of things that shouldn't be, because there's no victim. Seat belt laws for adults, drug use, drunk driving. Now, what I'm not saying is those things should be fair game with no provisos, but you should be able to use drugs and drink and drive if you want to, but it should be a huge crime if you materially affect another person. Getting into accidents, robbing people to pay for your drug habits. As long as you don't do things like that you should be free to do as you wish. And yes, there is a certain amount of risk that comes with that amount of freedoms, a risk that I view is well worth it. I don't give two shits of the possibility of a negative outcome, as the possibility for a negative outcome exists in every single thing you do. What actually happened is important.

I usually expect more intelligence from you, but this one goes the opposite direction.

Victimless? So, seat belts, drugs, and alcohol don't "materially" affect others?

You can't be so naive.

Seat belts save lives and reduce injuries. How many accidents have you worked in your life? How many fatalities have you personally responded to? When someone doesn't have insurance, who do you think pays the medical bills for those people? That's right, we the taxpayers and those of us with insurance do. Why do you think car and health insurance is so expensive? Because we are paying for those who don't have it. Just like higher prices at stores. We pay higher prices to cover the shrink that stores experience due to thieves.

Same goes with smoking, alcohol and drugs. Who do you think pays for their medical bills? Add into that the illegals it's just downright disgusting.

Not to mention the effect of drunk drivers on personal injury, death, and property damage. Every time a drunk plows over a road sign, the taxpayers pay to replace it.

[03trubluGT]

lol. And I agree. His posts are always exactly what I want to hear from a PO's perspective. I've noticed Matt is on another extended sabbatical, perhaps coming up with a new master plan on how to come back reborn again. I've also noticed a marked decrease in the number of FTP threads. Coincidence? Probably not.

Still worried about me I see.

[Back N Black]

6 pages before 5pm today, who has the over/under?

[Forever_frost]

Over the years I have worked with many people. I can honestly say most would have no part in that kind of behavior. It is way to much fucking paperwork and head ache. I have had been involved in deadly force incidents and it is not cool. I mean who the fuck wants to be charged with homicide for doing their job? I was directly involved in one incident and rolled up right after the shit quit flying on another. I can guarantee you its no fun. I had good friend and partner tell me that he wished he could have been there. I told him that I was glad he wasn't and it was not something anyone ever needs to be involved in. The above story, and a couple of other incidents I have been involved in, I can still tell you to this day every aspect. I can tell you that little girl was wearing a light blue top, light blue pajama shorts, where her bruises were, everything about the house and the blood, etc etc. I remember looking down at the address when the tones went off and going WTF I am in front of the house. A lot of people can not hang around cops because they think we are insensitive pricks. I am going to tell you guys this job numbs you to everything. Things that are horrific to some people are just another day to us. No excuse for some actions and behaviors but still, you guys just don't get it sometimes.

I have seen extreme differences in military guys just like I have regular joes right out of college. I have seen very mild mannered guys and then guys that wanted to conquer the world. I guess the big difference is the military guys have a whole lot of training and can use that to their advantage. That can also make them appear a little more abrupt then other guys. It's really just a crap shoot.

I understand that one. I can tell you about the little girl standing in the doorway with a 1980's cell phone, barefoot with a white shapeless dress and shoulder length black hair that waved at us and smiled. The whole time she was calling ahead to tell the ambushers we were on our way and our numbers.

[Forever_frost]

I usually expect more intelligence from you, but this one goes the opposite direction.

Victimless? So, seat belts, drugs, and alcohol don't "materially" affect others?

You can't be so naive.

Seat belts save lives and reduce injuries. How many accidents have you worked in your life? How many fatalities have you personally responded to? When someone doesn't have insurance, who do you think pays the medical bills for those people? That's right, we the taxpayers and those of us with insurance do. Why do you think car and health insurance is so expensive? Because we are paying for those who don't have it. Just like higher prices at stores. We pay higher prices to cover the shrink that stores experience due to thieves.

Same goes with smoking, alcohol and drugs. Who do you think pays for their medical bills? Add into that the illegals it's just downright disgusting.

Not to mention the effect of drunk drivers on personal injury, death, and property damage. Every time a drunk plows over a road sign, the taxpayers pay to replace it.

If an officer isn't wearing a seatbelt, do you ticket him? How many cops have you ticketed for traffic offenses (speeding, no turn signal, no seatbelt, driving while distracted, etc)?

[03trubluGT]

If an officer isn't wearing a seatbelt, do you ticket him? How many cops have you ticketed for traffic offenses (speeding, no turn signal, no seatbelt, driving while distracted, etc)?

You know how many "regular people" I haven't ticketed? Probably into the hundreds of thousands. If I was a robot cop and stopped every violation that I saw, I'd NEVER make a call because I'd never get there.

Like I've said before, I don't write many tickets. I only write parents who don't seat belt kids (because kids make great projectiles), I give 15 over on surface streets, and 20+ over on the freeways. The majority of times, if you have a DL and insurance, you get a warning.

Do you REALLY want officers that use no discretion? Because if you really want body cams, then officers are going to be forced to write EVERY ticket, or face neglect of duty allegations when the city council wonders why ticket revenue isn't what it should be. Small amounts of weed? Sorry buddy, this camera caught that and now you have to go to jail. Hell, it's on video. I can't just flush it or let it fly in the wind any more.

Frosty, you need to look up the traffic code. Officers can have dark tint, speed, run stop signs, and not wear their seat belt. It's the law.


Now my personal belief is that officers should drive in accordance to traffic laws and set the example for the motoring public.


And your invitation still stands. You can always join the almost dozen board members who have ridden out and see just how this stuff really works.

[ScottJ]

if that is the case,

it will start a race war within the police force, good cops can't stand crooked ones

Race Wars!

[Forever_frost]

You know how many "regular people" I haven't ticketed? Probably into the hundreds of thousands. If I was a robot cop and stopped every violation that I saw, I'd NEVER make a call because I'd never get there.

Like I've said before, I don't write many tickets. I only write parents who don't seat belt kids (because kids make great projectiles), I give 10 over in school zones, 15 on surface streets, and 20+ over on the freeways. The majority of times, if you have a DL and insurance, you get a warning.

Do you REALLY want officers that use no discretion? Because if you really want body cams, then officers are going to be forced to write EVERY ticket, or face neglect of duty allegations when the city council wonders why ticket revenue isn't what it should be. Small amounts of weed? Sorry buddy, this camera caught that and now you have to go to jail. Hell, it's on video. I can't just flush it or let it fly in the wind any more.

Frosty, you need to look up the traffic code. Officers can have dark tint, speed, run stop signs, and not wear their seat belt. It's the law.


Now my personal belief is that officers should drive in accordance to traffic laws and set the example for the motoring public.


And you invitation still stands. You can always join the almost dozen board members who have ridden out and see just how this stuff really works.

Exactly my point. Cops can violate laws that citizens cannot but get pissy when they get held to any kind of real standard. It's fucking hypocritical for a cop to roll up and check the tint of someone when their own windows are too dark or to pull someone over when they're speeding themselves.

Still, permit me to alter the question then. How many officers have you told "Stop being a fuckup and be an example. Fasten your belt and stop fucking speeding if you'r enot on a call?"

Why are you against body cams and mics? It wouldn't limit discretion but it WOULD allow discovery to fuck a bad cop up. And I mean a cam that runs from the second you put it on to the time you take it off so if you're speeding, weaving dangerously on the road, it's on camera.

I appreciate the offer for a ride along but I have issues when I'm in a vehicle I can't stop at will and an environment I cannot control. I'm also pretty sure you don't want me trying to check out the shotgun on your dash or your laptop which I would do because... impulse issues.

[blownaltered]

We've made illegal a ton of things that shouldn't be, because there's no victim. Seat belt laws for adults, drug use, drunk driving. Now, what I'm not saying is those things should be fair game with no provisos, but you should be able to use drugs and drink and drive if you want to, but it should be a huge crime if you materially affect another person. Getting into accidents, robbing people to pay for your drug habits. As long as you don't do things like that you should be free to do as you wish. And yes, there is a certain amount of risk that comes with that amount of freedoms, a risk that I view is well worth it. I don't give two shits of the possibility of a negative outcome, as the possibility for a negative outcome exists in every single thing you do. What actually happened is important.


Not to say the two are the same, but I distinctly remember in history classes reading and hearing about a group of people that told their overlords to fuck off in the late 1700's. Were they bad role models?

Spoken like somebody who has never lost a loved one to a drunk driver. Trust me your views on this change a lot when it happens to you. Once upon a time you didn't even go to jail for killing somebody while driving drunk, should we go back to that?

[03trubluGT]

Exactly my point. Cops can violate laws that citizens cannot but get pissy when they get held to any kind of real standard. It's fucking hypocritical for a cop to roll up and check the tint of someone when their own windows are too dark or to pull someone over when they're speeding themselves.

Man, I don't quite know what direction you are going with this, but the laws allow police leeway in doing a job. Now, an officer should NOT have a "pissy" attitude, and they are (unbelievably) held to a higher standard. How many of you can get into a wreck and then have to face an accident review board and discipline?

Still, permit me to alter the question then. How many officers have you told "Stop being a fuckup and be an example. Fasten your belt and stop fucking speeding if you'r enot on a call?"

I've corrected PLENTY of officers. Hell, about a year ago a marked SWAT vehicle was driving north on I35 and not using his signals for lane changes. I got on the MDC and typed an ALL message that goes to every terminal that said "Whoever is in SWAT unit XXXXX, please take it to the fleet shop because your signals are not functioning". Well, the driver saw the message and had a smart ass reply. I basically told him that he needed to set a good example for the motoring public. I later found out it was a guy from my own academy class, and I ran into him again last week. The first thing he brought up was my criticizing his driving. I told him to drive like he was supposed to and he would not have to worry about me calling him out.

This is just one of many examples guys here will never see, and don't know how I work. You really need to ask people like ThreeFingerPete who have ridden out with me and seen my work first hand. Adam is just as much FTP as the rest of you, but he knows me, and that's why he has never criticized me here. He knows the difference between the real me and the typical DFWM game face.

Why are you against body cams and mics? It wouldn't limit discretion but it WOULD allow discovery to fuck a bad cop up. And I mean a cam that runs from the second you put it on to the time you take it off so if you're speeding, weaving dangerously on the road, it's on camera.

I'm actually not against body cams, just be careful what you wish for. Body cams are a great tool, but they do take discretion out of the equation. How about we put body cams on police administrators, the city council, and the mayor?

I appreciate the offer for a ride along but I have issues when I'm in a vehicle I can't stop at will and an environment I cannot control. I'm also pretty sure you don't want me trying to check out the shotgun on your dash or your laptop which I would do because... impulse issues.

That's too bad. The best way to judge someone is to watch them work. See the experiences first hand, not edited on COPS.

[jammeejamm]

this thread will hit plaid soon enough.

[Craizie]

You've pulled over hundreds of thousands of people? Fucking robocop.

[Craizie]

Spoken like somebody who has never lost a loved one to a drunk driver. Trust me your views on this change a lot when it happens to you. Once upon a time you didn't even go to jail for killing somebody while driving drunk, should we go back to that?

I don't think that's what he's saying.