When they come for your guns . . . You will turn them over

[reo]

You really haven't paid attention have you? That's okay though. Here's what we learned in the American Revolution, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. A determined and technologically inferior population can take on a larger force and win. Repeatedly. No, you're not going to go head to head, but shoot and move? I know from experience (which whomever wrote this doesnt' have) you can't beat an insurgent force with Marines or attack choppers.

And you've never worn military body armor either have you? It will withstand 2, maybe 3 hits before the ceramic breaks and then is useless. And it's heavy. Bad heavy. Those weapons you say we can't have? many people do. You're ignoring the sheer amount of veterans and active duty who will not attack their own. You're thinking the military has equipment beyond what we do. Want to take out a tank? 1 gallon Walmart paint takes out thermals and they have to pop the top. Helicopters? Those annoying rotors are sensitive to weapons fire. And "state of the art automatic weapons?" We're still using M2's that were made in WW2. Our M4's and M16's? Vietnam era design. M203? Created off of the M79, vietnam era.

Yes, let's have this discussion in an informed manner. I have infantry training and combat experience. What do you bring to the discussion?

Well said. I was just having this conversation with someone else that was dreading "the military will come door to door and shoot people" and I simply laughed. I really think a confrontation is the least likely to happen. Most likely we will just be taxed to the point the average joe cant own a gun. A military/police action would end badly for anyone attempting to enforce an order like that with the amount of combat experienced veterans hanging around these days. Wanna take a guess how many Vets can build an IED? In short, I don't see this scenario likely, and should it happen, then I'm willing to bet it'll play out differently than you think.

-Eric

[DallasSleeper]

1 gallon Walmart paint takes out thermals and they have to pop the top.

Easier said than done.

We're still using M2's that were made in WW2.

WWI

Other than those 2 things I agree fully, plus I do not see our military following orders to attack American towns or citizens. Same with most police forces. If they genuinely wanted to attempt to disarm our citizens then they would have to use UN troops. Like we both know they would have their hands full. The only thing different about an insurgency here and what we faced in Iraq would be that it is a lot more difficult for us to gain access to explosives and RPGs. Over there you could find that stuff everywhere. But on our homefront Americans can shoot a hell of a lot better than the other insurgents in the world.

[Forever_frost]

Me? Not at all. However there are millions of veterans from every war since WW2 and you also have people who are nuts who make it a point to train as if they were military. Then you have police who refuse to follow those orders and decide to use those neat toys against anyone crossing their county lines.

It's easy to destroy tanks. Every infantryman is trained to do it. They look imposing but they're not. They also need massive supply lines and are dead in any urban setting and are even worse in wood lines. You have a very narrow area where you can use the tanks. Or choppers.

Now, what do you base your statement off of? What super tech weapons do we have? Hell, FLIRs are easy to spoof, tanks are loud and can be made to jump track, APC's can be disabled, and gas masks leak. Now, what instance has a technologically advanced military beaten a determined insurgency able to disappear into the civilian population? I can point to 4 instances where it failed, and every one of them are recent. What do you have?

[dville_gt]

You really haven't paid attention have you? That's okay though. Here's what we learned in the American Revolution, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. A determined and technologically inferior population can take on a larger force and win. Repeatedly. No, you're not going to go head to head, but shoot and move? I know from experience (which whomever wrote this doesnt' have) you can't beat an insurgent force with Marines or attack choppers.

And you've never worn military body armor either have you? It will withstand 2, maybe 3 hits before the ceramic breaks and then is useless. And it's heavy. Bad heavy. Those weapons you say we can't have? many people do. You're ignoring the sheer amount of veterans and active duty who will not attack their own. You're thinking the military has equipment beyond what we do. Want to take out a tank? 1 gallon Walmart paint takes out thermals and they have to pop the top. Helicopters? Those annoying rotors are sensitive to weapons fire.

Yes, let's have this discussion in an informed manner. I have infantry training and combat experience. What do you bring to the discussion?

Are you serious? You think you represent the norm in this country? Sorry bud, you don't, you are a 1%'er at best and as we just saw in the last election, folks are more then willing to sacrifice their freedoms for the illusion of safety. Whatever weakness the military has, you have x10000, you know how much easier it'd be to take out your Blazer then it is to take out their tanks? Oh, and saying the military or cops wouldn't follow orders, even if that meant taking out American life's, again, I believe the orders would be followed and those who chose to disobey them would be imprisoned.

If it makes you feel better to believe the rest of the country thinks like you do, by all means continue, but you are very mistaken.

[Forever_frost]

You really haven't paid attention have you? That's okay though. Here's what we learned in the American Revolution, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. A determined and technologically inferior population can take on a larger force and win. Repeatedly. No, you're not going to go head to head, but shoot and move? I know from experience (which whomever wrote this doesnt' have) you can't beat an insurgent force with Marines or attack choppers.

And you've never worn military body armor either have you? It will withstand 2, maybe 3 hits before the ceramic breaks and then is useless. And it's heavy. Bad heavy. Those weapons you say we can't have? many people do. You're ignoring the sheer amount of veterans and active duty who will not attack their own. You're thinking the military has equipment beyond what we do. Want to take out a tank? 1 gallon Walmart paint takes out thermals and they have to pop the top. Helicopters? Those annoying rotors are sensitive to weapons fire. And "state of the art automatic weapons?" We're still using M2's that were made in WW2. Our M4's and M16's? Vietnam era design. M203? Created off of the M79, vietnam era.

Yes, let's have this discussion in an informed manner. I have infantry training and combat experience. What do you bring to the discussion?

[BradM]

I ain't answering the door.

[reo]

I highly doubt you'll get any part of the national guard to comply with orders to disarm civilians (our own neighbors) since we are very fond of our guns also. And why should we listen when WE have the tanks and cool guy stuff, lol. Just food for thought.

-Eric

[LANTIRN]

Guess it depends on where you live on how things go. The Sheriff here has said he would not enforce a weapons confiscation program. If he is an honest man, the we would not have to fight local law enforcement but would rather have them on our side.

And if I die, then so be it. I would rather stand for something than fall for anything. That is off a song, and I don't remember which one, but it has always struck a chord with me.

[dville_gt]

Another article by my father...makes me wonder what most will/would do.


"When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands," is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. "You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands," which I often follow with the question, "And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?"

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. It’s not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and one of these (see photo below) rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition "for the common good," it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

"Want to take this on?"



The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.





And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who don't seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.



Also ignored (as if it didn't even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

"...for the last two years, the President’s Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of “homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities.” Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being “necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities” under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA." (Emphasis supplied.)

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.



And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.



That is your choice . . . for the moment.

http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/7/30/when-they-come-for-your-guns-you-will-turn-them-over.html