Tesla to Texas: How Do You Like Us Now?

[svauto-erotic855]

You say "at the time"...then claim technology hasn't advanced since then. But no one in their right mind would go with lead acids. So which is it?

I use lithiums, both primary and rechargeable, in most of my designs. If I'm trying to save cost I may go with something else but rarely is the cost of the battery a driver. It would be more so shipping restrictions on lithiums.

Shipping? You do realize that I am talking about nearly 1400lbs of batteries don't you?

[svauto-erotic855]

You say "at the time"...then claim technology hasn't advanced since then. But no one in their right mind would go with lead acids. So which is it?

I use lithiums, both primary and rechargeable, in most of my designs. If I'm trying to save cost I may go with something else but rarely is the cost of the battery a driver. It would be more so shipping restrictions on lithiums.

Exactly how old are you? Lead acid was all that there was back then. The cost is always a driver when a set of batteries will run you 7k. The tech in batteries has advanced quite a bit but will have to improve 300 fold to work as well as gasoline and even more if compared to diesel. The problems being faced doesn't hinge on just one item; it hinges on ALL of them and even if they all worked perfectly you sill are facing the issue of where the power to charge the batteries comes from.

Right now electric cars cause more pollution per mile then a comparable car with a normal engine and that is not even factoring in what it took to make them in the first place. EVERY SINGLE engineer in the electric car industry knows this but it is NEVER mentioned. To understand this you need to google "well to wheel analysis" and start reading. Get back to me in a few days and let me know what you think of electrics once you have a little research under your belt.

[Ruffdaddy]

You say "at the time"...then claim technology hasn't advanced since then. But no one in their right mind would go with lead acids. So which is it?

I use lithiums, both primary and rechargeable, in most of my designs. If I'm trying to save cost I may go with something else but rarely is the cost of the battery a driver. It would be more so shipping restrictions on lithiums.

[svauto-erotic855]

Lol so you're basing all of your "engineering" knowledge off some science experiment using second hand half assed parts? Dude you're a joke...

No, I went to school and became an engineer after I built my "Science Experiment". Most of my biological fathers family work in the automotive industry as engineers and so have I. Detroit is a small place and there are no secrets in the engineering community. I have had the privilege of meeting many people who have worked on or are working on these projects and see the challenges that they face and their thoughts concerning them. I am also a member of the SAE.

At the time my "Half Ass project" worked better then any professionally built electric car that had ever hit the market up to that date and it took Detroit 10 plus years of trying and billions of dollars to build a car that worked better.

There were also no half assed parts. At the time the wheelchair batteries were the most advanced and highest quality lead acid batteries that were being made. Why don't you go and price 30 of them and let me know how much of a dent it would put into your projects budget and then tell me how half assed they are.

[Ruffdaddy]

It was not you guys; it was just me and I was a teenager. Lead acid wheelchair batteries, 30 of them I think. I used the switching system from the Henney Kilowatt for inspiration but I used modern components and tailored it to the high voltage DC that the motor I had required.

Lol so you're basing all of your "engineering" knowledge off some science experiment using second hand half assed parts? Dude you're a joke...

[svauto-erotic855]

I'm seriously curious svo what kind of battery did you guys use for your electric car and how were you driving the motor?

It was not you guys; it was just me and I was a teenager. Lead acid wheelchair batteries, 30 of them I think. I used the switching system from the Henney Kilowatt for inspiration but I used modern components and tailored it to the high voltage DC that the motor I had required.

[jw33]

https://www.openchargemap.org/site

https://www.nteaa.org/dfw-chargin-stations

Just poking around it looks like there are about 6200 EV charging locations in the US by this map. No idea how long they have been around or if that number is updated very often. Based on the success of Tesla and the number of other EV that have been sold in the last few years I would say it is a safe bet they were all "built" fairly recently and the number could be slightly low.

Electric motors have not changed dramatically in quite a while. Materials and machining are much better, but the theory behind a A/C induction motor is mostly unchanged. However the drives (what "throttles" the motor and regulates power/RPM) has changed a lot. VFD (Variable-Frequency Drives) have become readily available and are what make everything we use today efficient. IGBT (Insulated gate bipolar transistors) pretty much changed everything and have only been in use since the late 80's for inverters and what make today's VFD so superior of soft starters or anything else.

By far the biggest thing to make EV for today has been the progress of the Lithium battery technology. Just look at the cell phone, tablet/laptop PC, and yes radio controlled hobby industry. None of it would be nearly as successful without the lithium battery. 20 years ago you would never thought about a laptop that could do what even a kids toy can do today. Electric flight was a pipe dream. Today I can buy an LiPo helicopter for less than $200 and the battery packs are $8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

I'm seriously curious svo what kind of battery did you guys use for your electric car and how were you driving the motor?

[svauto-erotic855]

What industry?

The electric car industry that has yet to make a profit or sell a single car without a government subsidy propping it up.

I forgot to add that no manufacture has even developed an electric car in the past 20 years without getting matching funds from the government to help pay for the effort or money gotten from private company's that have been forced to cough up the cash as a result of government arm twisting.

Google EV1 CNG, EV1 parallel hybrid or EV1 series hybrid if you want to see what a "Good Electric Car " is.

Also check out this list of cars and see how long manufactures have been trying to sell electric cars. You will notice that some of the production dates are in the 1950's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_production_battery_electric_vehicles

[Ruffdaddy]

The condition of the industry and the fact that they have not managed to turn a dimes worth of profit in the past 25 years despite billions of dollars sunk into the effort kind of proves the point that I have been trying to make.

By the way Honda had a prototype car in the late 80's that got 500mpg on gas. Rabbit diesels also got 100mpg in one experiment.

What industry?

[svauto-erotic855]

Jesus fucking christ. More claims when you haven't even validated the first set!

The condition of the industry and the fact that they have not managed to turn a dimes worth of profit in the past 25 years despite billions of dollars sunk into the effort kind of proves the point that I have been trying to make.

By the way Honda had a prototype car in the late 80's that got 500mpg on gas. Rabbit diesels also got 100mpg in one experiment.

[racrguy]

Big advancements are revolutionary not evolutionary and there is not even any talk of theory's concerning revolutionary advancements much less any work being made towards them.




I never said that they were a flash in the pan. I said that they will not do what the proponents of them want them to do because there is no such thing as a free lunch in engineering. They are a distraction from working on other types of technology that will make a bigger impact on the stated goals of the proponents of "green technology". Making a small car that gets the equivalent of 50mpg is not that big of a deal when a car of similar size and a IC engine gets 45mpg. Making a Tahoe or something like it that will get 20mpg around town is a MUCH bigger deal once you crunch the numbers.




My 12% number was losses. There are individual lines that have much lower losses and the figure in the early 80's was 10% but the grid is aging and the latest figure for the system as a whole in the US is touching on 12%.

Jesus fucking christ. More claims when you haven't even validated the first set!

[jw33]

Never let it be said that DFWM doesn't believe in arbitrary and capricious government meddling in private enterprise!

pretty sure the ammo/ar15 price gouging threads sorted that out long ago....

[Slowhand]

Never let it be said that DFWM doesn't believe in arbitrary and capricious government meddling in private enterprise!

[Gasser64]

Yes you have to look at the big picture so i see what he saying hes a big picture kind of guy.

[svauto-erotic855]

Oh, so refining existing technology with new processes and materials isn't new technology? If you want to classify new technology the way you did, there is little to no new technology. In fact, I can't think of a time when a new technology came about in my lifetime, going by your requirements.

Big advancements are revolutionary not evolutionary and there is not even any talk of theory's concerning revolutionary advancements much less any work being made towards them.

To Aggie and SVO, neither of you have explained why EV's are flash in the pan, won't work, or some other reason they won't work. You've both said technology hasn't progressed, but when looking at the reality of the situation, it disagrees with you.

I never said that they were a flash in the pan. I said that they will not do what the proponents of them want them to do because there is no such thing as a free lunch in engineering. They are a distraction from working on other types of technology that will make a bigger impact on the stated goals of the proponents of "green technology". Making a small car that gets the equivalent of 50mpg is not that big of a deal when a car of similar size and a IC engine gets 45mpg. Making a Tahoe or something like it that will get 20mpg around town is a MUCH bigger deal once you crunch the numbers.

There is still one problem. Like svo suggest ,

What is the efficiency of transferring electricity down the lines? He said 12%

My 12% number was losses. There are individual lines that have much lower losses and the figure in the early 80's was 10% but the grid is aging and the latest figure for the system as a whole in the US is touching on 12%.