final vote tally

[juiceweezl]

Did you use a reliable source for that information or some dipshit on Twitter? See what I mean?

Do you believe 90% voter turnout in WI? I'm not saying that's not correct, but I'm saying it's way above any previous high and probably warrants a closer look.

I also challenge the no fraud. How many headlines were there of abandoned ballots found: on the side of road, abandoned in dumpster, in Gasser64's trunk, etc.??? I could go on, but it's definitely there. Is it enough to move the needle? Who knows, but I look at it like I view snakes -- you may only see one, but there's more there.

Your points about sources are very valid though, and more people, not just this site, should vet their info.

[JC316]

Some of y'all need to get a grip and reevaluate the information resources you use to arrive at conclusions. Use The Associated Press for monitoring numbers and results, not partisan yahoos that are looking for clicks. In 244 years there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud, let alone enough to influence the outcome of the most scrutinized election in the county. NEITHER party wants voter fraud. It would be staggeringly easy to prove if it was happening on a scale large enough to swing a national election. We aren't living in some banana republic. In 2016, more than 41 percent of all ballots were cast before Election Day. Where you yelling fraud then when your candidate of choice won? I doubt it. If he still wins (which is possible), are you going to still think it was fraud? I doubt it. Stick to 9/11 was an insider job conspiracies. At least those are funny.

Once you figure out that there are no sides, it's not that hard to influence an election. There's no such thing as investigative journalism any more, so if there was voter fraud, the media wouldn't report on it. Anyone that had evidence would either be accused of being a conspiracy nutjob, or would commit suicide right before it went public.

Even if it was proven, the court system is controlled by the government, so a few pawns might see jail time, but the people that orchestrated it will walk.

So yeah, if you control the media, army, law enforcement, and court system, you can get away with pretty much anything.

[talisman]

Do you believe 90% voter turnout in WI? I'm not saying that's not correct, but I'm saying it's way above any previous high and probably warrants a closer look.

I also challenge the no fraud. How many headlines were there of abandoned ballots found: on the side of road, abandoned in dumpster, in Gasser64's trunk, etc.??? I could go on, but it's definitely there. Is it enough to move the needle? Who knows, but I look at it like I view snakes -- you may only see one, but there's more there.

Your points about sources are very valid though, and more people, not just this site, should vet their info.

I believe that by the time this election is said and done and January 20th rolls around this election will have had the Hubble shoved up its ass.

I didn't say "no" voter fraud. I said not enough to swing a national election, by a long shot. Certainly there is fraud. Words matter, and when you don't pay attention to them they can be twisted to mean anything.

[talisman]

Once you figure out that there are no sides, it's not that hard to influence an election. There's no such thing as investigative journalism any more, so if there was voter fraud, the media wouldn't report on it. Anyone that had evidence would either be accused of being a conspiracy nutjob, or would commit suicide right before it went public.

Even if it was proven, the court system is controlled by the government, so a few pawns might see jail time, but the people that orchestrated it will walk.

So yeah, if you control the media, army, law enforcement, and court system, you can get away with pretty much anything.

I'm pretty sure investigative journalism is alive and well, even if there are too many people out there claiming to be investigative journalists on their blogs. Ironically, that seems to be the source a significant quantity of people on this site are happy to get their news from.

[32vfromhell]

There is a chance Arizona could flip to trump with Maricopa county still reporting in.


*edit* MI was just called for Biden. 264 Electoral votes. If Arizona stays biden, it all comes down to Nevada.

[Jimbo]

There is a chance Arizona could flip to trump with Mariposa county still reporting in.

If 84% of the vote is in, there are still around 500,000 or so votes to be counted in AZ.
There is only a 90,000 vote margin of victory there, currently. Seems odd that it would already be called.

[Sgt Beavis]

If 84% of the vote is in, there are still around 500,000 or so votes to be counted in AZ.
There is only a 90,000 vote margin of victory there, currently. Seems odd that it would already be called.

Should be noted that not all news outlets are calling AZ for Biden. NBC and ABC have held off. Probably for the very reasons you mentioned.

I’m curious why Nevada’s numbers haven’t changed since this morning. Did they just stop reporting until they’ve got them all counted?

Also, I agree with Talisman.

[AnthonyS]

Go look at the results. MI and WI both found over 100k votes for Biden and zero for anyone else after midnight. That is statistically impossible.

[juiceweezl]

I believe that by the time this election is said and done and January 20th rolls around this election will have had the Hubble shoved up its ass.

I didn't say "no" voter fraud. I said not enough to swing a national election, by a long shot. Certainly there is fraud. Words matter, and when you don't pay attention to them they can be twisted to mean anything.

I think it's debatable as to whether or not it's enough to swing a national election. In the case of this year, just moving one state could determine it. In a normal year, I'd agree with you 100%. In a year like this with so much mail in voting, I think it's very likely that fraud/neglect (intentional or not) can turn a close race. A few hundred ballots here, a few more there, rinse, lather, repeat in multiple counties, and all of a sudden a 10-12 electoral vote state swings.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it does warrant a closer look. The system sets itself up for more opportunities for failure by mass mailing ballots (some states did), allowing them to be received late, etc. There are just too many places that someone can lose a ballot, remark one, not count one, etc.

I also think you have to question metrics. I believe WI's highest ever voter turnout is this year, and not by a little. It looks like almost 3.3 out of 3.6 million possible voters cast ballots. They had over 90% of the 2 million absentee ballots returned. Those are historically high numbers. I know COVID, but all of that is worth a Hubble size telescope view as you suggest. WI has < 21K votes separating the Biden and Trump. If half of those are ballots that were altered/fraud, it flips the entire election. That's less than 140 ballots per county on average. Surely you don't believe that isn't possible to conceive...

And FWIW, I'd say the same thing if Trump were trailing and Biden wanted to question numbers. One person does not define a party, but there are moronic diehards on both sides that will do things to make sure their guy wins, even without being supported by the candidate. Possible may not mean likely, but it has to be looked at as having occurred.

Edit: One last thing. Polls aren't voter fraud, but they can certainly be influential and voter suppression. Reporting someone up double digits certainly can discourage someone from voting (which is on that person), but the media/pollsters shouldn't be allowed to push a false narrative.

[Jimbo]

[talisman]

I also think you have to question metrics. I believe WI's highest ever voter turnout is this year, and not by a little. It looks like almost 3.3 out of 3.6 million possible voters cast ballots. They had over 90% of the 2 million absentee ballots returned. Those are historically high numbers. I know COVID, but all of that is worth a Hubble size telescope view as you suggest. WI has < 21K votes separating the Biden and Trump. If half of those are ballots that were altered/fraud, it flips the entire election. That's less than 140 ballots per county on average. Surely you don't believe that isn't possible to conceive...

You have to take that turnout and apply it on a national scale though. This has been the highest voter turnout in 120 years. The country has become the most divided I've ever seen it in the last four years, and we're in the middle of an ongoing national crisis with no end in sight. People wanted to make themselves heard this year. Is what you're saying conceivable? Certainly. Is it likely though? Especially when an automatic recount is going to come into play unless certain thresholds are crossed?

[juiceweezl]

You have to take that turnout and apply it on a national scale though. This has been the highest voter turnout in 120 years. The country has become the most divided I've ever seen it in the last four years, and we're in the middle of an ongoing national crisis with no end in sight. People wanted to make themselves heard this year. Is what you're saying conceivable? Certainly. Is it likely though? Especially when an automatic recount is going to come into play unless certain thresholds are crossed?

We will see, but dive deeper. If the major metro areas are even say 85%, then that means the rest of the state would need to be near 100% to get to the 90% number. Based on history, even in years with a huge turnout, those are really high. I have not checked, but I doubt you saw those numbers in other states.

On the flip side, I hope that we see more and more people voting - real votes, not fraud - and I hope they are informed voters. Everyone has the right to vote and should exercise it, but take it seriously. Don't just check a box because you dislike someone or don't know them.

[Sgt Beavis]

Trump greatly increased his support from:
1. 18% of Black Males - up from 13%
2. 8% of Black Females - up from 4%
He also increased his support from Latino, LBGT, and Asians....

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ny-times-charles-blow-personally-devastating-trump-voters

I’ve always thought the GOP was foolish to not put more efforts into these groups. Trump showed there is something to work with there. Republicans need to play a long game there. Frankly, beyond the civil rights movement, I think most Black Americans are fairly conservative in many issues and the Democrats have abused their support over the decades.

[Jimbo]

Nevada is tighter than I thought, with roughly 397,519 votes yet to be counted and a current margin of 7,647 votes.

[AnthonyS]

talisman in the closet....

Yah right. Anyone saying there is zero voter fraud is so far up the DNCs ass they think Hunter Biden’s laptop is Russian disinfo too.