Beretta 1301 Tactical?

[svauto-erotic855]

That's still only 180 foot-pounds of energy. The original specification was 124 grains at 1150 feet/second, about double the energy. It'd have to be going only about 800 feet/second to bring it down to that. Anyways, that falls well short of having "more energy than most handgun loads"

Muzzle vs 50 meters. The original 9mm design spec did not have a muzzle energy requirement; only a 50 meter requirement.

The reason I said +p+ is because the old school 9mm loads were already that. As the ability to measure pressure got better they have backed off the old loads significantly. One ubiquitous factory 9mm load from the mid teens to the late 40s tested normal using the CPU method. When using a strain gauge once they became available they found it was about 11,000lbs over pressure. The same thing happened with 125gr .357mag loads using blue dot.

[Nash B.]

^^^^ You are partially correct. I did my calculation with the base ball weighing in at 7oz and going 110mph and used the original 9mm 50 meter velocity spec from the original design requirement from 1908.

As for my apples example I flub that up entirely when converting the 1.5 lbs of apples into grains.

That's still only 180 foot-pounds of energy. The original specification was 124 grains at 1150 feet/second, about double the energy. It'd have to be going only about 800 feet/second to bring it down to that. Anyways, that falls well short of having "more energy than most handgun loads"

[svauto-erotic855]

^^^^ You are partially correct. I did my calculation with the base ball weighing in at 7oz and going 110mph and used the original 9mm 50 meter velocity spec from the original design requirement from 1908.

As for my apples example I flub that up entirely when converting the 1.5 lbs of apples into grains.

[Nash B.]

A base ball thrown into your gut has more energy than most hand gun loads and it will not make your guts hit your spine. You are seriously over estimating how much energy a fired projectile has. Back face deformation with armor is of concern but it is not a serious issue with the most common threats you will face such as a hand gun and it is nothing to worry about once the shot string has had a chance to spread which takes about 4 yards with cheap buck loads.To put things into perspective a +P+ 9mm load has about as much kenitic energy as 3 apples dropped from 1 meter. I will gladly show up with a bolt action 12ga and will place the butt into my navel and fire off as many shots as you care to pay for. The force I will feel is exactly the same force I would feel if I placed a plate of steel over my stomach and fired the shot into it.

FYI : Unlike you I have actually shot a person before with a 12ga and have had the pleasure of being arested for it. I know what it will do on bare flesh and I know what it will do when it strikes a barrier. Seeing as how I do not carry a 32 at all for personal defense or a 38 with anything other than a top tier commercial load I would not pick a shot gun for personal defense if there was even the slightest chance that who ever was after me had a tiny bit of training and was serious about doing so.

I won't argue with your bullshit but I can certainly argue with your math.

Energy is 1/2 mass x velocity ^ 2.

A baseball weighs 5 to 5.25 ounces. At 95 mph, that's:
a mass of 5.25 / (16 x 32.2) = .01 pounds (mass)
a velocity of 95 mph = 139.333 fps
energy = 1/2 (.01) (139.333^2) = 99 foot-pounds

An apple is about 1/3 of a pound. 3 apples is about 1 pound then; their mass is 1/32.2 pounds (mass)
We'll use some calculus to figure out how fast they're moving when they reach the ground, dropped from 1 meter (3.3 feet).
v(t) = -32.2t
s(t) = -16.1t^2 + 3.3
using the quadratic formula, we find that it takes them about .45 seconds to hit the ground after being dropped from 3.3 feet
v(.45) = 15 feet/second
So, energy = 1/2 (1/32.2) (15^2) = 3.5 foot-pounds

[svauto-erotic855]

The US military doesn't know shit, SVO has killed more peeps than measles, cholera, the plague, the flu and AIDS.... and that's just before breakfast and all with a single pencil.....

I was not debating the numbers for the buckshot. I said that he cherry picked the .38spl numbers by finding a super weak commercial load. Most .38spl factory loads that are ment for shooting a living target are quite a bit more powerful.

Edit: Since we are splitting hairs; the 226 number per pellet of buckshot is not correct. 211 is the correct number.

[AnthonyS]

Standard military buckshot is 1,325 fps, 486 grains of projectiles = 226 ft⋅lbf

Hornady JHP 125 gr 900 ft/s = 225 ft⋅lbf

This comparison is in the US military field manual for the Remington M870.

The US military doesn't know shit, SVO has killed more peeps than measles, cholera, the plague, the flu and AIDS.... and that's just before breakfast and all with a single pencil.....

[Craizie]

It is pretty easy to do; the first knuckle of your thumb is normally what wacks you. A lose hold can do it and not having the butt firmly in "The pocket" vs just having it against your shoulder will also do it. The first time I ever shot a shotgun as a kid it knocked the shit out of my face and scared me to death. Going from a .22 to 16ga taught me a lesson really fast.

I get it, but he said his wrist hit his nose.

[AnthonyS]

Police officer friend of mine took a .380 point blank on the vest in the chest area and it disabled him enough the perp was able to wrestle him down before the perp was ventilated by backup officers. Cop is a big boy, too.

Yah but your cop friend is a big pussy compared to SVO...... I still remember the pepper spray "training" and the it's all in your mind BS too. No it fucking burns and I can't see shit, that's reality. I don't want to ever get shot body armor or notband that includes .22.

[SS Junk]

You do realize armor that "prevents penetration," such as kevlar, will still make your stomach touch your spine when it absorbs that energy?

Police officer friend of mine took a .380 point blank on the vest in the chest area and it disabled him enough the perp was able to wrestle him down before the perp was ventilated by backup officers. Cop is a big boy, too.

[svauto-erotic855]

I still can't imagine how you hit your nose with your wrist.

It is pretty easy to do; the first knuckle of your thumb is normally what wacks you. A lose hold can do it and not having the butt firmly in "The pocket" vs just having it against your shoulder will also do it. The first time I ever shot a shotgun as a kid it knocked the shit out of my face and scared me to death. Going from a .22 to 16ga taught me a lesson really fast.

[32vfromhell]

Looking at this picture, looks like i probably smacked it with the knuckle of my thumb.

[Craizie]

I still can't imagine how you hit your nose with your wrist.

[32vfromhell]

How....did you hit yourself in the face while shooting a shouldered shotgun?

Don't most pump / semi autos come with plugs? All the ones ( not many ) I've bought came with plugs.

Actually my wrist did it as it recoiled back. Not that hard to imagine with a cheek weld.

The gun is shockingly light, and yes, it does produce a lot of recoil that you wouldnt expect. Certainly different than any pump-action 12-guage i have fired.

I learned a quick lesson, laughed it off, and the rest of my shots were fine after a readjustment.

[Jose]

Ya I thought the plug was in there to make it legal for hunting.

[Craizie]

Lawl.