Beretta 1301 Tactical?

[CJ]

One pellet of 00 buck is closer to a .32 than a .38 in energy. I will look up some commercial ammo specs once I get in tonight to be sure this is an accurate statement.

What I said was it would drop you, not that it would kill you. When you're on the ground, you're going to get ventilated by the guy who just shot you. No one ever said anything about energy killing you, other than it's a measure of the energy, and useful for comparison.

[svauto-erotic855]

Lol, okay bro. You're older. You also clean pools, which is of the same relevance. I noticed you completely crawfished on my point, which was completely valid. I don't give a shit what your custom loads do. A standard 38spc is slow, and buckshot is much higher velocity. Their energy delivery is comparable, which was the whole fucking point you attempted to shit on but have now moved off of.

One pellet of 00 buck is closer to a .32 than a .38 in energy. I will look up some commercial ammo specs once I get in tonight to be sure this is an accurate statement.

[CJ]

To quote your words from post #18 " That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock.". You implied it again here in the same post; "Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with."

Getting hit will a 12ga slug is not incredible energy delivery; it is the equivalent to a large man stiff arming you in the chest with an open palm.

You will not drop like a rock from the kinetic energy but you will drop eventually from blood loss if you take that hit without wearing armor. Even level II armor would be enough to protect you.

I even gave you instructions and you failed to read. Try again.

[svauto-erotic855]

The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.

While we are at it lets discuss kinetic energy and how it relates to death.

I killed an Elk a few weeks ago with an arrow that has about the same energy as a .22lr. He laid down in 15 feet and died a few minutes later.

Now lets shoot the same elk with a 12ga at 10 ft using a 1.125 oz load of bird shot moving at 1200fps; nothing happens except a flesh wound. Now lets shoot Mr Elk with a 9 pellet load of 00 buck moving at 1200fps. Nothing will happen unless you are really lucking except for a much deeper flesh wound. Now we shoot Mr Elk again but this time we shoot him with a slug that weighs in at the same 1.125 oz moving at the same 1200 fps and it nearly passes through him while causing enough damage to kill him. Every load had the exact same amount of energy but they penetrate differently and wound differently. Every example 12ga load has about 10 times the energy of my arrow by the way.

[AnthonyS]

All good. How's everything?

Pretty good, how about you? I was just thinking how young we were back in the cheese plant days. That was a long time ago. You ever make it back this way lunch/dinner and beer/cocktails are on me.

[svauto-erotic855]

The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.

To quote your words from post #18 " That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock.". You implied it again here in the same post; "Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with."

Getting hit will a 12ga slug is not incredible energy delivery; it is the equivalent to a large man stiff arming you in the chest with an open palm.

You will not drop like a rock from the kinetic energy but you will drop eventually from blood loss if you take that hit without wearing armor. Even level II armor would be enough to protect you.

[YALE]

Probably.

All good. How's everything?

[CJ]

I would not and do not own anything from under armour.

Believe it or not firearms follow conventional laws of physics. The equal and opposite reactions part is what causes recoil. You can reduce that a bit by using a muzzle brake but the energy is still there. Every technique used to reduce felt recoil either spreads the recoil out over a longer amount of time or redirects a portion of it.

The cause of death from a gun shot is typically blood loss. A hit to the central nervous that disrupts critical body functions is less common. For the most part KINETIC ENERGY IS NOT THE CAUSE OF DEATH with small arms for the simple reason that there is not much energy to start with. This is why a knife that is inserted very slowly with nearly ZERO kinetic energy kills just as well as a gunshot.

The shit you're blathering about is so elementary it's nauseating. You act like you're the only one in here that understands highschool physics. Who said kinetic energy kills people? The problem is you're just waiting to type a response and not reading what people are saying.

[svauto-erotic855]

Your blatant disregard for firearm safety is absolutely appalling sir!

On a serious note though, SVO has taken every type of 12 guage ammo to the chest while wearing only an under armour shit and and nothing was able to penetrate his skin. The force of the shots were barely even felt.

I would not and do not own anything from under armour.

Believe it or not firearms follow conventional laws of physics. The equal and opposite reactions part is what causes recoil. You can reduce that a bit by using a muzzle brake but the energy is still there. Every technique used to reduce felt recoil either spreads the recoil out over a longer amount of time or redirects a portion of it.

The cause of death from a gun shot is typically blood loss. A hit to the central nervous that disrupts critical body functions is less common. For the most part KINETIC ENERGY IS NOT THE CAUSE OF DEATH with small arms for the simple reason that there is not much energy to start with. This is why a knife that is inserted very slowly with nearly ZERO kinetic energy kills just as well as a gunshot.

[CJ]

I am older than you and have been doing this longer than you; you seriously think I forgot about velocity? Double the weight and you double the energy. Double the velocity and you have 4 times the energy. FYI: My pet .38spl loads clock about 1140fps with a 158gr bullet and a six inch barrel.

No thank you on the armor test but I will gladly shoot a shotgun with any safe load you can come up with in the manner that I described so you can see if it knocks me down. I will also fasten a steel plate to the end of a log that weighs about half of what I do and see if you can move it by shooting it with a shotgun with any load that you care to devise. I think you already know how that test will work out.

Lol, okay bro. You're older. You also clean pools, which is of the same relevance. I noticed you completely crawfished on my point, which was completely valid. I don't give a shit what your custom loads do. A standard 38spc is slow, and buckshot is much higher velocity. Their energy delivery is comparable, which was the whole fucking point you attempted to shit on but have now moved off of.

[red89notch]

How about as a test I supply armor and shoot you in the chest with a 12ga?

Your blatant disregard for firearm safety is absolutely appalling sir!

On a serious note though, SVO has taken every type of 12 guage ammo to the chest while wearing only an under armour shit and and nothing was able to penetrate his skin. The force of the shots were barely even felt.

[svauto-erotic855]

How about as a test I supply armor and shoot you in the chest with a 12ga?

As for the 38spc comment you're forgetting energy delivery is a result of weight AND velocity. You're thinking one dimensionally. A pellet and a 38spl deliver between 200-250 ftlbs.

I am older than you and have been doing this longer than you; you seriously think I forgot about velocity? Double the weight and you double the energy. Double the velocity and you have 4 times the energy. FYI: My pet .38spl loads clock about 1140fps with a 158gr bullet and a six inch barrel.

No thank you on the armor test but I will gladly shoot a shotgun with any safe load you can come up with in the manner that I described so you can see if it knocks me down. I will also fasten a steel plate to the end of a log that weighs about half of what I do and see if you can move it by shooting it with a shotgun with any load that you care to devise. I think you already know how that test will work out.

[CJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhI_ECOAK4



I am an aim at the pelvis type also.

My point is that there is not really isn't much spread to the pattern unless you happen to be shooting down a very long hall way.



Where do you find .38spl loads that weigh in at 53.8 grains? I guess you load them yourself.

My .38spl loads usually start around 110 grains and higher and I can not ever recall seeing a bullet in that diameter under 90 grains.

As far as taking an ounce of lead to the chest. Place the butt of a shotgun in the center of your chest and pull the trigger. The recoil that you feel is exactly how much energy the load being fired would strike you with. The only difference is the area that the force is applied to. I can punch with more energy than the hottest .357 Mag can deliver but the area of my fist is quite a bit larger than the area on the bullets face so there is no penetration from my fist (sometimes there is but that is another topic) while there is a great deal of penetration from the bullet.

As a test you should find something that can not be penetrated by a shot gun slug that weighs in at about 100lbs. See how far it will move when you empty a shot gun into it and then go try to move it by hand. You will find that shooting it did not move it an appreciable amount and that moving it by hand doesn't take much effort.



Body armor was not common back then and the distances involved in trench warfare were very short. I know what a shot gun at close range does to a person. Have you ever heard the old saying "Shotgun dead"?

I have an old Winchester trench gun and love it.

How about as a test I supply armor and shoot you in the chest with a 12ga?

As for the 38spc comment you're forgetting energy delivery is a result of weight AND velocity. You're thinking one dimensionally. A pellet and a 38spl deliver between 200-250 ftlbs.

[32vfromhell]

Was able to pick one up for a little cheaper with some ammo. Casey, thanks for the lead, i'm sure it will sell soon!

[svauto-erotic855]

I wonder how this compares to the Mossberg JM Pro. I've been on the fence about one of those guns.

The Mossberg's are great performers but the gas system has some fragile plastic parts that worry me. I have always wanted to remake them in metal.