Beretta 1301 Tactical?

[GeorgeG.]

I wonder how this compares to the Mossberg JM Pro. I've been on the fence about one of those guns.

[svauto-erotic855]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhI_ECOAK4

I've dropped 25 rds of buckshot on 3 man sized targets from 3 to 25 yards more than once using ye ole pump shotgun on the MC shotgun course. I know exactly what it looks like. Body armor.... crotch shot your pecker and leg arteries bleed out pretty quick. The two largest arteries pass through that region.

I might even remember the shotgun course of fire but it's been a while. I typically took 90secs or do for all 25 rds. It'd be faster with a 1301.

I am an aim at the pelvis type also.

My point is that there is not really isn't much spread to the pattern unless you happen to be shooting down a very long hall way.

Well, your logic is a little basic here. It's really ballistically equivalent (or closest to) getting hit with a .38spl nine times.

Pattern is directly the result of the ammo as much as it is the choke or the barrel of the gun. I can get insane spread using a cup with no petals, no buffer material, etc. The shells I load for my grenade launcher have a 36" spread at 15 feet, for instance. The part you seem to be missing is the cumulative aspect. For instance, if you take a chest shot cleanly you absorb an ounce of lead in a chest plate. That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock. Yeah the armor will stop it, but you're dead because while you're trying to recover from what just happened you're being ventilated on the ground.

That's also assuming every single pellet impacts the same plate. Reality would dictate some of those pellets would wander off the plate. If that happens, you're down and dead, basically. I don't see anyone taking a buckshot pellet and staying in the fight. If the result of that injury is anything other than 100% disabling your target with the next shot, you're going to get killed by the following shot from the guy holding the shotgun.

Out of all the weapons one might encounter, a shotgun with buckshot is probably one of the least survivable. Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with.

Where do you find .38spl loads that weigh in at 53.8 grains? I guess you load them yourself.

My .38spl loads usually start around 110 grains and higher and I can not ever recall seeing a bullet in that diameter under 90 grains.

As far as taking an ounce of lead to the chest. Place the butt of a shotgun in the center of your chest and pull the trigger. The recoil that you feel is exactly how much energy the load being fired would strike you with. The only difference is the area that the force is applied to. I can punch with more energy than the hottest .357 Mag can deliver but the area of my fist is quite a bit larger than the area on the bullets face so there is no penetration from my fist (sometimes there is but that is another topic) while there is a great deal of penetration from the bullet.

As a test you should find something that can not be penetrated by a shot gun slug that weighs in at about 100lbs. See how far it will move when you empty a shot gun into it and then go try to move it by hand. You will find that shooting it did not move it an appreciable amount and that moving it by hand doesn't take much effort.

Pershing > SVO

https://owlcation.com/humanities/Wor...otgun-Inhumane

Body armor was not common back then and the distances involved in trench warfare were very short. I know what a shot gun at close range does to a person. Have you ever heard the old saying "Shotgun dead"?

I have an old Winchester trench gun and love it.

[AnthonyS]

False equivalency.

Probably.

[YALE]

Pershing > SVO

https://owlcation.com/humanities/Wor...otgun-Inhumane

False equivalency.

[AnthonyS]

Pershing > SVO

https://owlcation.com/humanities/World-War-1-History-Germany-Declares-Shotgun-Inhumane

[CJ]

One pellet of 00 buck weighs in at 53.8 grains and round balls have very poor penetration. Body armor can be bought online for under 250 bucks that is impervious to buckshot.

Try patterning a shot gun at various distances with various self defense loads. What you will find if you take the time to do it will show you that much of what is believed about shotguns is total bullshit. Seriously; 20 minutes, some poster board, and a few boxes of shells will blow your mind. You will never know until you try. I will even pay you for the materials if you promise to go do it.

You are correct about what a solid hit on an unarmored target will get you; a dead target.

Well, your logic is a little basic here. It's really ballistically equivalent (or closest to) getting hit with a .38spl nine times.

Pattern is directly the result of the ammo as much as it is the choke or the barrel of the gun. I can get insane spread using a cup with no petals, no buffer material, etc. The shells I load for my grenade launcher have a 36" spread at 15 feet, for instance. The part you seem to be missing is the cumulative aspect. For instance, if you take a chest shot cleanly you absorb an ounce of lead in a chest plate. That is incredible energy delivery. You will not take an ounce of lead moving at 1,200fps in the chest and do anything other than drop like a rock. Yeah the armor will stop it, but you're dead because while you're trying to recover from what just happened you're being ventilated on the ground.

That's also assuming every single pellet impacts the same plate. Reality would dictate some of those pellets would wander off the plate. If that happens, you're down and dead, basically. I don't see anyone taking a buckshot pellet and staying in the fight. If the result of that injury is anything other than 100% disabling your target with the next shot, you're going to get killed by the following shot from the guy holding the shotgun.

Out of all the weapons one might encounter, a shotgun with buckshot is probably one of the least survivable. Don't get caught up the fact the armor plate may stop the projectile, you still have energy to contend with.

[SS Junk]

Body armor.... crotch shot your pecker and leg arteries bleed out pretty quick. The two largest arteries pass through that region.

You know they're going to be wearing body armor and be quick enough to get a "crotch shot" off before they return fire? That's some SVO shit right there!

[AnthonyS]

One pellet of 00 buck weighs in at 53.8 grains and round balls have very poor penetration. Body armor can be bought online for under 250 bucks that is impervious to buckshot.

Try patterning a shot gun at various distances with various self defense loads. What you will find if you take the time to do it will show you that much of what is believed about shotguns is total bullshit. Seriously; 20 minutes, some poster board, and a few boxes of shells will blow your mind. You will never know until you try. I will even pay you for the materials if you promise to go do it.

You are correct about what a solid hit on an unarmored target will get you; a dead target.

I've dropped 25 rds of buckshot on 3 man sized targets from 3 to 25 yards more than once using ye ole pump shotgun on the MC shotgun course. I know exactly what it looks like. Body armor.... crotch shot your pecker and leg arteries bleed out pretty quick. The two largest arteries pass through that region.

I might even remember the shotgun course of fire but it's been a while. I typically took 90secs or do for all 25 rds. It'd be faster with a 1301.

[Craizie]

One pellet of 00 buck weighs in at 53.8 grains and round balls have very poor penetration. Body armor can be bought online for under 250 bucks that is impervious to buckshot.

Try patterning a shot gun at various distances with various self defense loads. What you will find if you take the time to do it will show you that much of what is believed about shotguns is total bullshit. Seriously; 20 minutes, some poster board, and a few boxes of shells will blow your mind. You will never know until you try. I will even pay you for the materials if you promise to go do it.

You are correct about what a solid hit on an unarmored target will get you; a dead target.

I was pretty shocked at how tight the group was after someone AD straight through the ceiling / roof... and this was bird shot.

[svauto-erotic855]

Go talk to an ER doc in a big city and ask them about pistol vs rifle vs 12 ga wounds and who is gonna make it. 00 buck is 9 9mm rounds in a tight group.

And then there is aiming at your target especially if your close quarter weapon of choice is a pistol. With a shotgun if you can see the barrel end and target it's a sure hit.

One pellet of 00 buck weighs in at 53.8 grains and round balls have very poor penetration. Body armor can be bought online for under 250 bucks that is impervious to buckshot.

Try patterning a shot gun at various distances with various self defense loads. What you will find if you take the time to do it will show you that much of what is believed about shotguns is total bullshit. Seriously; 20 minutes, some poster board, and a few boxes of shells will blow your mind. You will never know until you try. I will even pay you for the materials if you promise to go do it.

You are correct about what a solid hit on an unarmored target will get you; a dead target.

[BradM]

Whoa fella, that sounded a little rapey.

Sounds like I got my message across.

[AnthonyS]

Guess that's a matter of personal preference. If you can run a gun and know how to use it in close quarters, it shouldn't matter. Personally, I wouldn't go to a shotgun first.

Go talk to an ER doc in a big city and ask them about pistol vs rifle vs 12 ga wounds and who is gonna make it. 00 buck is 9 9mm rounds in a tight group.

And then there is aiming at your target especially if your close quarter weapon of choice is a pistol. With a shotgun if you can see the barrel end and target it's a sure hit.

[GE]

If I didn't have a Steoger m3k, I'd be all over this. Honestly this is a way better home defense weapon than an AR or pistol. You can repel an entire home invasion with a tactical shotgun or fuck up an entire terrorist cell gone wild. Everyone should have one.

Guess that's a matter of personal preference. If you can run a gun and know how to use it in close quarters, it shouldn't matter. Personally, I wouldn't go to a shotgun first.

[01yz2nv]

Do you have a stocked walk in store? I would love to drop in.

Naw I’m just out of my house. For the most part I special order on request.

[32vfromhell]

Casey, i'll text ya tomorrow.