Shots fired at downtown Dallas protest

[4king]

They brought him one. They could have used CS or a flashbang right then. Nope. Brought him a phone. They could get to him, it was easier to blow him up. IT was less dangerous to use explosives. It blows my mind that so many don't see how dangerous this line of thinking is.

No, police have no obligation to protect anyone. I have cited the court cases repeatedly. I did notice they ran towards the gunfire and then I noticed the Chief of police ordering not justice but revenge by not trying to get him out and bring him before a jury but blowing him the fuck up with a robot. What was done was not justice but vengeance. Did he deserve to die? Absolutely yes. Did he deserve to die because the chief decided it was better to blow him up than to use CS or flashbangs or anything else? Or to use any of that to bring him before a jury and try him? No. That's not how it works. Due process demands he be brought to trial and all means used to bring him to trial.

I'm with you, I just don't believe a police officer at any level should ever give out a kill order. If it is revealed the robot was solely sent into the room to kill him then there should be some reprocussions and resignations.

That is why I believe the robot was not sent in to kill him. A police force who's mission is to protect and serve should not execute a kill order.

Usually the police protocol is to DE escalate the situation. Perhaps he was making a run down the corridor to engage the other officers I don't know

[LANTIRN]

Had he been fully contained I might agree with you. But since he still had the ability to go mobile and start killing again I disagree. Plus he touted having IED's. He wanted a phone, they brought him one! The guy was in a elevated position in the parking garage. Did you see all the dumb fucks that thought they were safe because they were away from the building? That guy was an active shooter and our training says take out the threat in the safest possible way. To me, the robot was genius even though I fucking hate Brown after his son killed my brother in blue. You always complain that the police have no duty to protect people. In case you didn't notice they were running to the gun fire, to protect those that were actively protesting against them.

You can't necessarily blame parents for an adult child's actions. Yes, a lot of children are the result of bad parenting, but some people are just douchebaggy assholes and the parents are not at fault. I don't know shit about Chief Brown, but the fact that a black Police Chief stood up on live tv and said the black shooter wanted to kill whites and white officers is good stuff. When the media and this administration are pushing for a race war and he stands up there and tells the unfiltered truth, he earns some respect in my book.

[Forever_frost]

Had he been fully contained I might agree with you. But since he still had the ability to go mobile and start killing again I disagree. Plus he touted having IED's. He wanted a phone, they brought him one! The guy was in a elevated position in the parking garage. Did you see all the dumb fucks that thought they were safe because they were away from the building? That guy was an active shooter and our training says take out the threat in the safest possible way. To me, the robot was genius even though I fucking hate Brown after his son killed my brother in blue. You always complain that the police have no duty to protect people. In case you didn't notice they were running to the gun fire, to protect those that were actively protesting against them.

They brought him one. They could have used CS or a flashbang right then. Nope. Brought him a phone. They could get to him, it was easier to blow him up. IT was less dangerous to use explosives. It blows my mind that so many don't see how dangerous this line of thinking is.

No, police have no obligation to protect anyone. I have cited the court cases repeatedly. I did notice they ran towards the gunfire and then I noticed the Chief of police ordering not justice but revenge by not trying to get him out and bring him before a jury but blowing him the fuck up with a robot. What was done was not justice but vengeance. Did he deserve to die? Absolutely yes. Did he deserve to die because the chief decided it was better to blow him up than to use CS or flashbangs or anything else? Or to use any of that to bring him before a jury and try him? No. That's not how it works. Due process demands he be brought to trial and all means used to bring him to trial.

[kingjason]

Despite his dirt bag son from what I have been told Brown is not a bad man. Don't you believe that he feels a great deal of grief for what his son did not to mention the loss of his son?

Holy shit you have no idea.

[Forever_frost]

What is dangerous is that you don't get it frost. He had killed 5 police officers. Which means he would kill anyone. Society, at least the decent part of society I live in, demands we do anything to stop him.

It's a sad world when that gets lost.

No, what is dangerous is they went for a kill with a robot and explosives instead of attempting to use said explosives to clear a breach and enter with CS and a fire team to ATTEMPT to get to him. Justice and rule of law, not punishment and the police being executioner. You want more of this? This is how you get it. You want police targeted? Have them decide that it's easier to send in robots with explosives instead of trying to administer justice through alternative means.

"Demands we do anything to stop him." Really now? My study of history reveals a lot of civilizations like that. Never ends well. It always starts with "Do anything it takes to protect us." Then it moves into the state using that power you gave them in ever expanding circles until they're using deadly force for absolutely no reason what so ever. Drone attacks because a speeder won't stop? Sure. Bank robbery and the guy won't come out? Send in the drone with the C4. Why risk anyone?

Whatever it takes is dangerous and removes completely due process.

[svauto-erotic855]

Had he been fully contained I might agree with you. But since he still had the ability to go mobile and start killing again I disagree. Plus he touted having IED's. He wanted a phone, they brought him one! The guy was in a elevated position in the parking garage. Did you see all the dumb fucks that thought they were safe because they were away from the building? That guy was an active shooter and our training says take out the threat in the safest possible way. To me, the robot was genius even though I fucking hate Brown after his son killed my brother in blue. You always complain that the police have no duty to protect people. In case you didn't notice they were running to the gun fire, to protect those that were actively protesting against them.

Despite his dirt bag son from what I have been told Brown is not a bad man. Don't you believe that he feels a great deal of grief for what his son did not to mention the loss of his son?

[BradM]

Deadly force is deadly force. Deadly force was necessary, deadly force was used.

[kingjason]

If that was what happened, that would be fine. The DPD didn't say that was what happened. They said they sent in the drone to kill him. Yes I have problems with our combat ROE but when our combat ROE in a war zone is more restrictive than what cops can use here, there is something seriously wrong. This .. this wasn't to secure a suspect, to take down a barricade, to attempt an arrest. It was to kill someone.

That is dangerous.

Had he been fully contained I might agree with you. But since he still had the ability to go mobile and start killing again I disagree. Plus he touted having IED's. He wanted a phone, they brought him one! The guy was in a elevated position in the parking garage. Did you see all the dumb fucks that thought they were safe because they were away from the building? That guy was an active shooter and our training says take out the threat in the safest possible way. To me, the robot was genius even though I fucking hate Brown after his son killed my brother in blue. You always complain that the police have no duty to protect people. In case you didn't notice they were running to the gun fire, to protect those that were actively protesting against them.

[Cum Dumpster]

What is dangerous is that you don't get it frost. He had killed 5 police officers. Which means he would kill anyone. Society, at least the decent part of society I live in, demands we do anything to stop him.

It's a sad world when that gets lost.

[CexMashean]

Where does it say in the constitution that the police weren't allowed to do what they did?

[Forever_frost]

The robot was sent in to view if any devices were present, and if negotiations break ties the robot is used to observe if the suspect is still alive or has taken his own life. In that situation the robot was probably armed with a detonation device if it encountered a suspicious object; and then the suspect advanced to a point where they deemed he could take the explosive device. It has been mentioned that this is the first time in us history a "drone" has been used to take a life of a us citizen on Us soil

Most likely as he hovered over the robot for a few moments the decision was made to detonate rather than let him possibly take the explosive detonation device from the robot.

I'd love to think they did it on purpose to kill him but most likely it was a tactical defensive maneuver

If that was what happened, that would be fine. The DPD didn't say that was what happened. They said they sent in the drone to kill him. Yes I have problems with our combat ROE but when our combat ROE in a war zone is more restrictive than what cops can use here, there is something seriously wrong. This .. this wasn't to secure a suspect, to take down a barricade, to attempt an arrest. It was to kill someone.

That is dangerous.

[The King]

I'm here less and less for the same reasons. Fewer and fewer old schoolers and more and more complete and utter trash.

That is true of most Internet forums though, particularly special-interest (car for example) forums such as this. Unless some new members join, the "old schoolers" tend to not remain active enough to keep the forum alive and the site withers and dies.

[svauto-erotic855]

How do we stop this violence and at the same time rebuild trust with police?

A really good start would be to repeal every bullshit "Because I said so" kind of law. Modern police were created to protect people from each other; not to protect people from themselves. Unfortunately the "Police" today are there to enforce "Policy" of what is becoming a ruling class; their secondary concern is the safety or well being of the public at large.

Edit: Another thing to consider is this. The founding fathers were very concerned about the establishment of a standing army and the detrimental effect it would have on personal freedoms. When you read what they considered a standing army to be you will find that their description of one bears a shocking resemblance to law enforcement as it is practiced in our country today. They wrote the 2nd Amendment into the bill of rights specifically to counter the possible establishment of a standing army and to keep them in check if one was established.

Many black Americans today agree with the following statement but change the term "Redcoat" to "Your friendly city police officer."

"Many colonists held the sentiment that the redcoats stationed in the colonies existed not to protect them but to enforce the king’s detestable policies at bayonet-point."

Do you see any similarities here?

"In March 1770, British regulars fired into a crowd of civilians, killing five. That event provided all the proof the colonists needed of the true nature of the redcoats’ mission in the colonies."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre

^^^^ If you read up on this you will find that most of the redcoats( The police officers of their day) were cleared of all wrong doing for shooting the protesters; after an internal investigation of course. The ones who were convicted were given a slap on the wrist(A brand actually). Their lawyer was our future president, John Adams.

"By the end of the War of Independence, hatred of a standing army had become a powerful and near-universal tradition among the American people (Many Black Americans today); the professional British army (Your local PD) was nothing less than a “conspiracy against liberty.”

Just keep in mind that the British redcoats were the lawful instruments of the ruling government and were the enforcement arm of the courts/legal system of the time.

[svauto-erotic855]

Definitely not an SKS.

I wonder what room he was in. Did anyone mention a floor or room number?

[LANTIRN]

How do we stop this violence and at the same time rebuild trust with police? The last 5 or 10 years has seen a growing problem with police abusing rights and departments covering it up. There is growing distrust for cops on both sides. Yes the BLM movement has some legitimate complaints, however those are overshadowed by the fact that they yell about even the legitimate uses of police self defense, like the cop in Ferguson who was getting his face bashed in. That side is so unreasonable that even if all police departments cleaned house today, threw out the bad cops, and started to do business 100% like they should, BLM violence and distrust would still grow. Trust by people like me can still be earned back, but people like me are not the problem we are seeing. So if it appears trust cannot be rebuilt on one side, how do we end this cycle and fix the problem? Does the only path end in martial law, or is there another way? I don't see how you rebuild trust on the other side. Every justified arrest or justified shooting in defense leads to the movement growing in membership.