Netflix Original: Bill Nye Saves The Earth

[naynay]

i cant keep on 10 pages later. this topic has shifted so many times.

as i said, trump doesnt give a flying fuck about anything you are talking about.

this is a 70 year old 8 year old who would rather sit in his room alone playing on his phone, than to be an actual world leader. respect is earned, not given.

this is your president with other world leaders, how long til he pulls out of nato?

[Strychnine]

Yep, and going to fuck up our relationships with Europe and China.

What gets [more] fucked up with China when the US decides that we'll do it our own way? China emits double the amount of CO2 that the US does. What's going to change? What does a 2x "offender" lose by us not playing along?

No answer.

China becomes the leader of solar energy, and germany becomes the leader in electric vehicles. but we are gonna bring back jobs for the coal workers!

But how does China becoming a solar leader hurt our relationship?
How does Germany becoming a leader in EV hurt our relationship? Sure those things might happen... and it would be cool if they did. But you made a very clear statement:

Yep, and going to fuck up our relationships with Europe and China.

So, what changes tomorrow?

No answer.

Tell me this then, how did this move HELP our relationships? Because it did one or the other...

We never ratified Kyoto. Did our relationships with those countries fall apart? Did we lose influence?

No answer.

Leave the emotion out of it, and address the concerns. In the past, or in the future, when the US continues to allow the free market to drive clean energy innovation – without government force - , how are we going to fail on the international stage?

We'll simply start falling behind in research, education, discoveries, space, etc. Step 1: say you don't care. Step 2: everyone starts acting it out.

This isn’t the first time we bucked against an international “climate agreement” so what are some examples of how we fell behind in research, education, discoveries, space, etc after we voted to not ratify the Kyoto Protocol?

It's a good thing we have other innovators who will reduce the cost through new technology, production techniques, and other methods (like reusing rockets can do for space). It may not be ready today, but someday it will.

All of those things continued after 2001. SpaceX, Solar City, etc, etc, etc and

Almost half of the biggest U.S. companies have established clean-energy targets for themselves, according to a report Tuesday from sustainable investors and environmental groups including the World Wildlife Fund.

It’s not just the biggest U.S. companies -- 44 percent of the smallest 100 members of the Fortune 500 have also set goals,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-25/biggest-u-s-companies-setting-more-renewable-energy-targets

Help me understand our impending backslide, since 2pm this afternoon when Trump made this announcement.

Companies selling solar panels, electric cars, and other clean energy just got a crap ton of uncertainty put on their futures. That's what puts us behind.

A company's uncertainly is based on its financial reports. If a company's sustainability is reliant on a toothless international accord mandating their existence then are the world governments really the problem?

and really thats the bottom line. the only one still arguing a point is the guy with his entire life sank into the oil industry, so it makes sense that he would stand for this.

Who are you talking about here?

[cyclonescott]

thats the guy you wanna identify with?

Compared to you, he is an absolute genius.

[naynay]

and what ever happened to the jesus freak? did he see the thing about man evolving in europe and jump out off a balcony?

[naynay]

Companies selling solar panels, electric cars, and other clean energy just got a crap ton of uncertainty put on their futures. That's what puts us behind.

and really thats the bottom line. the only one still arguing a point is the guy with his entire life sank into the oil industry, so it makes sense that he would stand for this.

[naynay]

thats the guy you wanna identify with?

[mschmoyer]

Long Post...(saving space)

I'm happy corporations, cities, mayors are all "defying" our pulling out and going at it themselves. I'd rather America had a unified voice, but if we have to skip the feds to do it, then whatever works. That doesn't change that I disagree, and therefore won't vote for a president who works against innovation in the name of some $$$.

Don't underestimate the folks running around using us pulling out of this as evidence that all scientific results are conspiracies and climate change is false. Companies selling solar panels, electric cars, and other clean energy just got a crap ton of uncertainty put on their futures. That's what puts us behind.

[cyclonescott]

[Strychnine]

Your deflecting the entire thread to try to prove him wrong. We just quit our seat at a table with 200 other countries. We're now among 2 others that don't have a seat. Your the anti-social kid sitting in the corner while everyone else works on a project together. Not to mention that a large majority of the world believes in protecting the planet & climate issues, and we just issued a big fat "we don't care".

It's not that we "dont have" a seat, it's that we don't want to sit. Big difference. Not being invited and choosing to not go are different things. And it sounds like you're saying the buy-in to sit at the table should not be the same for everyone, and we are somehow morally liable to commit to orders of magnitude more work and cost than the majority of others... just to sit at the table? Are they really working together on a project while I (the US) sit in a corner?

Back to that American guilt thing, why in the hell do we need to do that?

BTW, Trump also said:

We are getting out, but we will start to negotiate and we will see if we can make a deal... and if we can’t that’s fine.

He’s not giving up on the issue, he’s avoiding tying our hands behind our backs (economically speaking).

Tell me this then, how did this move HELP our relationships? Because it did one or the other...

We never ratified Kyoto. Did our relationships with those countries fall apart? Did we lose influence? This is not the first time they’ve tried to force this on everyone.

Finally, your problem might be with the word "relationship". "Influence" might be better. We'll simply start falling behind in research, education, discoveries, space, etc. Step 1: say you don't care. Step 2: everyone starts acting it out.

Why would we start falling behind? California has, on its own, outside of any federal regulation or international agreement, accelerated their clean energy plan.
In the energy industry, as California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. CARB : EPA :: CA emissions laws : 49 other states’ emissions laws
Do you think they’ll roll that back? Do you think that other western states who follow CA closely will suddenly not care about their own laws? Do you think that private money like Anschutz will stop investing hundreds of millions into wind and other renewables? Just because there’s not a federal mandate does not mean things are not changing for the better.

I feel like you think I’m against you – I’m not. I’m against the federal government dictating what the solution should be.



BTW, did anyone bitch this much when Canada withdrew from the Kyoto Protocol?
They say they withdrew because, “The Kyoto protocol does not cover the world's largest two emitters, the United States and China, and therefore cannot work.” Apply the same logic to CO2 emission per capita, and why the hell should all of those middle eastern countries not do their part? Why do they get a pass? Why are people pissed off when we decide it’s not fair that the US reduce emissions ?

Of course, the less talked about other reason is that Canada wasn’t going to meet it’s “goals” and it was going to cost them $14 billion…
Wait, what? It didn’t make sense economically, other countries weren’t doing their part and pulling their weight, so a large developed nation backed out? But, but but…


Why was the Paris Accord not put before Congress? Why was there no vote on whether or not we would participate? Any other treaty in the land must be ratified... what was so different about this one? It’s well known that the US agreed to the Kyoto Protocol, but we never ratified it so technically we weren’t part it it. Where is the consistency in all of this? What’s the real end-game?

[mschmoyer]

My company got out of it last year for similar reasons. In fact, we were just talking about it the other day and the statement was made that 'Nobody is really making money on solar'.. It's a shell game meant to make people feel good.

It's a good thing we have other innovators who will reduce the cost through new technology, production techniques, and other methods (like reusing rockets can do for space). It may not be ready today, but someday it will.

[naynay]

arent you (the end user) saving money with it though?

[Chili]

Musk is getting out of it because it may cost him millions if not billions, his companies are heavily subsidized.

I worked on a few projects with large solar companies and they told me without being subsidized heavily they cannot compete, probably will not until 2025-2035. With oil and coal so cheap it is not economically feasible to keep using it. Like Austin with its solar credits, after giving credits for solar panels they are running a deficit...

My company got out of it last year for similar reasons. In fact, we were just talking about it the other day and the statement was made that 'Nobody is really making money on solar'.. It's a shell game meant to make people feel good.

[mschmoyer]

You do realize the Paris accord was voluntary the whole time right? You could say you were going to reduce pollution by 30% and if you increased it 30% nothing would happen. The whole thing was a scam

So why quit instead of negotiate it for the better? (A. because Trump is incapable of talking Scientific issues and B. He doesn't care)

[no4njnk]

Musk is getting out of it because it may cost him millions if not billions, his companies are heavily subsidized.

I worked on a few projects with large solar companies and they told me without being subsidized heavily they cannot compete, probably will not until 2025-2035. With oil and coal so cheap it is not economically feasible to keep using it. Like Austin with its solar credits, after giving credits for solar panels they are running a deficit.

I am all for running more efficient systems but the technology is not there right now. China can say they are reducing pollution but until they let private regulators in there I do not believe a word of what they say.

You do realize the Paris accord was voluntary the whole time right? You could say you were going to reduce pollution by 30% and if you increased it 30% nothing would happen. The whole thing was a scam

[mschmoyer]

Germany is 1/10th the population of America and 1/2 the size of Texas. Why do I care what Germany does?

I see you repeatedly can't get past one citation in a larger post.